Sleeve fitting

[charlotte]

This is my first time sewing/wearing a woven dress with long sleeves!

They are bridesmaids' dresses for a friend's wedding. Myself and Maid of Honour (also a close friend) tried on our toiles and we both felt the restriction of arm movement.

My question is - is it normal? We agreed that we had enough movement to use our knives and forks and for slightly restrained dancing (no YMCA).

I am looking into adding a cut on gusset but I think it will change the lines of the dress so they won't look quite as neat, so I am inclined to live with the slightly restricted range of motion. Would a cut-on gusset make enough of a difference to justify the style compromise? Is there a more obvious fix I am missing? Is this just the sacrifice you make for a woven dress with long sleeves?

[Ohsewsimple]

What is the patterns?  Have you made toile So?  If so piccies would help.  But I would say that the fit is off if you have that much reduced movement. 

[charlotte]

The pattern is New Look 6508 View A.

I have lengthened the sleeves as Bride to Be wants three quarter sleeves. I assume this is part of the problem. I can't mess around with the shape of the sleeve too much as the fabric is both sheer and directional.

I just cannot get my head around how to have sleeves on a fitted woven dress and still be able to move your arms!

[tumblina]

Check the armholes: high armholes that hug the body will allow for more movement than low wide ones.

[Ploshkin]

I'm sure lurking on here is Kenneth King's video - How to Fit Sleeves the Hip Hop Way (sounds weird but it's not)
Anyway it isn't amongst the tutorials so I found it and here it is if you are interested
I recall that one of the things he concentrates on is sleeves allowing movement

[BrendaP]

That link (and others to Threads Magazine) time out.

http://www.flamencodressmaking.com/2010/12/how-to-sew-sleeves-that-let-you-move/
explains how sleeves for flamenco dresses are designed.

http://www.ikatbag.com/2014/03/subtelties-in-drafting-sleeves.html?m=1
givs an in depth explanation about different shaped sleeve heads

[Holly Berry]

Apologies if this is obvious, but you have put them in the right way round, it's so easy to do   

If they are, then it sounds like a drafting problem. Changing the length shouldn't have that effect unless the cuff edge is too tight and catching on the arm, allowance has to be made for bending at the elbow.

Sleeves in woven are the same shape as knit, they just have a little more ease in the draft in woven.

[charlotte]

I have some terrible photos to add!



The sleeve fits nicely and looks lovely when my arm is by my side. Apart from that it's quite creased in this photo!



But I can't raise my arm more than this in front of me.

My question is: is there a fit issue or is some degree of restriction to be expected? There is enough range of motion to eat and dance comfortably - just not with a lot of overhead arm movements!

The armscye is very close fitting so I think that is right.

[Ohsewsimple]

I think one of the problems is that the bodice itself is too wide at the top.  The actual seamline where the sleeve joins is too far over towards the arm.  The  seamline should be where the crease is when you bend your arm.  If the bodice comes further out it restricts movement.  Closer fit in this area equals more movement.  I would also check the width of the sleeve at the underarm.  There should be approximately 5cms ease over and above your actual a bicep measurement. 

[elephun]

But I can't raise my arm more than this in front of me.

My question is: is there a fit issue or is some degree of restriction to be expected? There is enough range of motion to eat and dance comfortably - just not with a lot of overhead arm movements!

It sounds like you may have not worn a non-stretchy woven dress with sleeves before? Yes, a woven dress with sleeves will have some degree of range of motion (ROM) restriction. The amount that you describe moving doesn't sound unreasonable. I'd want to move more, but that is personal. Luckily, you can optimize your dress to improve your ROM if you are unhappy with how well you can move now! I'm confident you can get more ROM out of it. It might be easy but it might take some time/work.
Think of all the things you're going to do in that dress. If it is good enough now, then it's good enough. The dress toile looks very nice to me.

[UttaRetch]

I think one of the problems is that the bodice itself is too wide at the top.  The actual seamline where the sleeve joins is too far over towards the arm.

This is my observation too.  Charlotte, you might want to shave a bit of the armhole.  Some people need to do a narrow shoulder adjustment but this doesn't seem to be your problem.

[charlotte]

It sounds like you may have not worn a non-stretchy woven dress with sleeves before?

Exactly! I was quizzing my boyfriend last night about how much he can move in his shirt. We were out for dinner and I was getting him to do the YMCA!!!

Thanks so much everyone for the help. The issue is that I (we) like how it looks so I don't want to mess that up. I have, however, been persuaded to take it in a teeny bit at the waist (currently 3" of ease), which will mean I lose more movement so I think I want to try something.

I am going to try shaving a bit of the armscye. Does that mean I should increase the sleeve head a little bit too?

I'm also going to do some 'cut on gusset' experiements in the style of the flamenco sleeve.

I shall report back on how it works out!

[UttaRetch]

I am going to try shaving a bit of the armscye. Does that mean I should increase the sleeve head a little bit too?

Ooh, I hadn't considered this but any decent tute should address this.  In my experience, however, woven garment sleeves often have excessive ease, so as long as the notces match it might not be necessary.

[charlotte]

Turns out flamenco sleeves are the way forward! I don't know why all dresses aren't drafted with the 'cut on' gusset. Not sure I've got the armscye quite right yet, but I'm almost there!

[Ohsewsimple]

When making a toile it's better if you do the main dress first leaving out the sleeve.  Get the fit of that right.  Another problem could be that the armhole is actually a bit low.  Sorry I've only just thought of it.  These problems can be spotted and rectified easier without the sleeve attached.  There shouldn't really be the need for a gusset if the fit is right.  I'm wondering if you started out with a pattern that was a size or two too big.  To check where the armhole seams should be measure across the chest from one crease line to the other.