The Sewing Place

Flameco sleeves

Marniesews

Flameco sleeves
« on: October 04, 2017, 00:01:14 AM »
Having just spotted this post from a flamenco dress maker  (not Catlaar but I'm hoping she jumps in quickly) it's got me thinking about drafting sleeves with 'wings' that extend into the bottom of the armscye to avoid them pulling away from the armpit and restricting movement.

I know there was a lot of discussion about this on TSF and I saved links to it but that doesn't help now.  :(  Now I've got further with drafting patterns I really want to get this sorted so I'm hoping perhaps CarolC and others remember more than I do and have suggestions about how to tackle the drafting of this shape.
Aka Jacky F in a former life...

Catllar

Re: Flameco sleeves
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2017, 20:16:41 PM »
That's my friend Anke, we chat a lot and enjoy meeting up in Granada where the lucky girl lives and works. - she produces the best fitting patterns and works for a lot of the star of the flamenco world. Her reshaped sleeve head works perfectly, but I usually find that I have to reduce the width of the entire sleeve to get a snug fit if using a stretch fabric. The important bit is the armscye and that needs to be cut high into the armpit. As long as you draft your sleeve head to fit into the restricted armscye and you remove all the sleeve head fullness it's not really hard to alter a sloper.
If life gives you lemons, add to gin and tonic !


Marniesews

Re: Flameco sleeves
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2017, 23:52:06 PM »
Small world, catllar!

Bearing in mind that I've only just drafted my first ballroom dress, I'm still needing a bit of confidence in being certain that I'm doing it right especially as it's not a shape that's in any of the drafting sources that I've seen. Looking at Anke's drawing, it looks to me as though I can pivot the pattern at the centre shoulder point and swing the sleeve upwards to trace the curve and then join up the side. Would that work?

I've seen another one here which seems to have an outside curve just  before the side seam. Unfortunately she doesn't say exactly how she determines this shape but I'm wondering if it's a case of using the curve of the armscye and flipping it to join onto the sleeve.
Aka Jacky F in a former life...

Catllar

Re: Flameco sleeves
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2017, 09:57:35 AM »
Small world, catllar!

Bearing in mind that I've only just drafted my first ballroom dress, I'm still needing a bit of confidence in being certain that I'm doing it right especially as it's not a shape that's in any of the drafting sources that I've seen. Looking at Anke's drawing, it looks to me as though I can pivot the pattern at the centre shoulder point and swing the sleeve upwards to trace the curve and then join up the side. Would that work?

I've seen another one here which seems to have an outside curve just  before the side seam. Unfortunately she doesn't say exactly how she determines this shape but I'm wondering if it's a case of using the curve of the armscye and flipping it to join onto the sleeve.

Yes  pivoting should work - I just eyeball mine to be honest! Don't forget to take a sliver off the shoulder seam length.  The Overflowing stash plan seems a bit overthought to my slapdash brain, but I guess as she is using no-stretch fabrics then she will have different problems to contend with.  Back in the day before  lycra, spanish costumes with sleeves had either the entire under arm left unstitched, or a diamond gusset was put in.
If life gives you lemons, add to gin and tonic !


CarolC

Re: Flameco sleeves
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2017, 08:53:39 AM »
Hello! I'm really glad sleeves have resurfaced as I still am not wholly happy with my set-in stretch sleeves, although they are getting better. That very flat sleeve cap is a classic stretch shape, and the Kwik-Sew sleeves are similar.

It's not so much adding wings as flattening the top of the sleeve. The curving top part of the sleeve still needs to be the same length as your armhole (armscye), and it gets wider to compensate for the lack of height hence the "wings". And as Catlar says, the bottom of the armhole itself needs to be nice and high under the arm, so you may need to raise it.

This blog has a useful tissue box and toilet roll demo of why and how it works. http://www.ikatbag.com/2014/03/subtelties-in-drafting-sleeves.html

The Pattern School archive also has directions for making sleeves like that, but it's really fiddly. http://web.archive.org/web/20130114065137/http://www.patternschool.com/?page_id=178

xxx

charlotte

Re: Flameco sleeves
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2017, 10:56:58 AM »
Hello.

I don't do dancewear but I have been playing around with sleeve options recently...

I'm not sure if this is what you're talking about, but I used this page to draft my new favourite sleeves.

If Spanish is an issue you can use google translate or just look at the pictures!

Marniesews

Re: Flameco sleeves
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2017, 17:55:25 PM »
It's not so much adding wings as flattening the top of the sleeve.

Yes, I see what you mean with the DanceSport pattern and the flamenco version, it's the built-in gusset one from The Overflowing Stash that put 'wings' firmly in my head now!  ;)

Off to have a look at the other links now...(thank you both)   J  :)
Aka Jacky F in a former life...

Catllar

Re: Flameco sleeves
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2017, 23:01:50 PM »
I like the spanish one Charlotte - bookmarked!
If life gives you lemons, add to gin and tonic !