The Sewing Place

problems with 15k

rowe1311

problems with 15k
« on: November 18, 2017, 20:25:37 PM »
I have been using my singer 15k recently, and having problems with it stitching.  I am using it with the hand crank and sometimes it stitches and other times it gets stuck and I am not sure why.  When I turn the crank or hand wheel nothing happens and it is often when trying to pierce through the fabric it gets stuck.  I have changed the needle, oiled the machine, checked the mechanism without thread in and it works fine and changed the tension, and the balance wheel is screwed in very tight. 

I suspect it has something to do with the tension disks, but not sure what.  When I loosen the tension it goes through a little smoother, but not always, but the tension is poor and upper thread is showing through on under side a lot.  I am missing a take up spring (which I keep meaning to buy but haven't got round to) so I am not if this is the problem or whether there is something else.  I suspect it is something quite simple I just don't know what. 

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Re: problems with 15k
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2017, 21:24:28 PM »
Take up spring? The one for the presser bar or the one on the tensioner? They are both a  must to get the machine to behave. The fine coil spring on the tensioner is a must, even if it's bend or just a bit out of place it will mess up tension. All parts of the tensioner needs to be there and in reasonably clean condition to work.

If the machine gets stuck it is mostly likely still oiling and cleaning. Especially if it's not quite run in yet after long term storage. Detect all oil points, investigate thorughly, make sure oil seep in to the inners of all moving parts where metal touches against metal. I'm sure you are aware of them; but just in case; there are oil points on top of the machine, holes in the black cast iron parts, there are a few joints behind the round plate in the back. There's several under the base and the actual points are at the end of rods, and tiny holes to reach inners of joints and hinges, a cam like part the feed dogs roll on. Behind the face plate all joints need oil, and make sure the rods for presser bar and needle bar are oiled where they enter the cast irion part and comes out in the needle and presser foot end. The hand crank have oil points too, but I have hardly used a hand crank and perhaps other can advice on it.

To get it right with these old machine you  often have to take all plates and covers off, clean and oil tenatively a few times. Lint, grime and old oil gradually loosens and dissolve.  Scrape grime and dust out of feed dogs, every corner and groove should be clean, and the same for the bobbin case and hook parts. Even when you think you have done it more than thoroughly, it's easy to have missed a spot. It takes time to flush all grime and stickly oil out of joints and hinges in a model 15. It's usually all about tentative oiling and cleaning, daily test sewing and oiling for the first week or so.

Other things to check; needle in the correct way. Does your model have a stitch length lever with revers stich; or more of a screw with nut at the end and no reverse?

rowe1311

Re: problems with 15k
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2017, 21:57:58 PM »
It is the take up spring in the tension bit.  It has had a few oilings in all the places and anything that looks like it moves.  In the bobbin area I have only oiled it in the two points in manual and it might need another clean.  There seemed to be very little lint but I do remember that area, and the feed dogs, were pretty grubby when I started using it.  When there is no thread on the needle it goes beautifully and it sometimes goes beautifully when stitching, it is just when it starts stitching it seems to have problems.  I will have another play and see if the oil has seeped in a bit more.  Thank you

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Re: problems with 15k
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2017, 23:28:39 PM »
Order the tension spring, it's not expensive and the machine will misbehave with out it. I think there's two types, one for the older 15 with out the numbered dial and one for the newer with the numbered dial. It has to be the correct one, and if you are lucky you might be able to get it in a local repair shop too.

I have test sewed a couple of hand cranks only, sharp need and all that are important, but if I remember correctly it stiched through layers of thick cotton canvas with out being hard work on the hand. I'm still leaning towards further cleaning to fix the problem. When we test sew and have second and third round of cleaning and oiling we get to the finer points. With a bit of investigation you will discover where the problem lies.

rowe1311

Re: problems with 15k
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2017, 19:15:30 PM »
I will ring Helen Howes tomorrow and order the right part, and chat to her as well about the problem.  When I was doing a test piece it worked great, but when I try and sew straps onto a bag it struggles.  They are not particularly thick, maybe 5 layers of fairly thin material, which I think it shouldn't really struggle with. 

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Re: problems with 15k
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2017, 23:28:51 PM »
I see, it needs to be looked into. According to the Sewalot site this model was demostrated by stitching through tin cans and I doubt a 5 layers of material should be too much. What can make it struggle is bumpy seams, endges and there's nothing directly wrong, but it needs one of those even out tools "hump jumpers", they sell them under various names. I'm sure it can be sorted out.

What exactly happens? Hard to turn the hand crank? Does the needle stop in the material? Is it threaded correctly? Only trouble when the machine is threaded?

rowe1311

Re: problems with 15k
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2017, 19:37:05 PM »
I chatted to Helen Howes today and ordered the tension Spring.  It is also missing the pin at the back which releases the tension when presser foot is up.  She suggests that the clutch is slipping and cleaning the clutch and balance wheel and the bits with it might help.  I had a quick look at it, but will need to clean it another day and will wait for my spring to arrive. 

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Re: problems with 15k
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2017, 23:25:30 PM »
Could very well be, when you can wind a bobbin and the needle doesn't move it's a good sign. Another good sign is when you spin the hand wheel and it keeps on spinning and moving the needle up and down for a quite a few seconds. I had to take off the hand wheel on my 201 and oil quite generously for the clutch release to work properly when winding. The second time I did it, I smeared a good layer of oil on all parts where metal moves against metal, and it has worked since. It could be any part on the machine, there are a few easily missed; one of the parts behind the hand wheel, the needle bar itself. The parts under the base can need several application to get the oil where it needs to be. Somtimes the oil points on top of the body can be clogged up, poke a toothpick or pin down there to get any lint and grime out.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2017, 00:25:53 AM by arrow »

rowe1311

Re: problems with 15k
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2017, 20:37:57 PM »
I am trying to clean the the machine and fit the new tension take up spring, but I need help. 

I have taken the tension disks off and the rod has come out but I can't seem to find how to put the spring on.  I have been following these instructions, http://www.fixthatvintagesewingmachine.com/Thread-tension-spring/Check-spring-replace.html, but I am stuck on photo 6, the coil bit seems to be smaller than the rod bit. 

I will take a photo to show you as soon as I find my phone.   

rowe1311

Re: problems with 15k
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2017, 20:43:26 PM »
Not great light but this is where I am at at the moment.

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Re: problems with 15k
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2017, 21:46:20 PM »
I don't think you should follow the advice about lithium grease. It gets sticky over time and I don't think Singer ever recommended anything but a thorough clean for the tension assembly. Someone with an old type 15K would be better help than me, but for the tension spring it is all about wiggeling it in place, getting it in the right position when tightening the grub screw for the split bolt. This page has a more detailed tutorial for the 15-30 model. (starts about 1/3 down the page).

Edit; I managed to enlarge the photos, and I would suggest more polishing and cleaning of the parts. I think there is a separate part stuck on the back end of the split bolt?

Additionally I found a very nice page on cleaning up an old type 15 from the same blogger. Almost halfway down this page is more on the tension assembly.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2017, 21:58:08 PM by arrow »

rowe1311

Re: problems with 15k
« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2017, 21:56:35 PM »
Thank you, that looks a much better tutorial.  What is the split bolt? 

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Re: problems with 15k
« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2017, 22:01:21 PM »
Split bolt / split screw / tension bolt/ metal stud; the metal part the assembly of springs, disks and nut goes onto. I don't know if there is a single specific word for it. On model 15 it looks like the take up spring goes behind the split bolt. Part number three from the left. It's worth shining these parts up, and steel usually shines up like new with the right polish.

« Last Edit: November 26, 2017, 00:13:15 AM by arrow »

rowe1311

Re: problems with 15k
« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2017, 22:16:07 PM »
Thank you, I have managed to unscrew that and it makes a bit more sense now.  That diagram looks very helpful, the split bolt thing is slightly different.  I think the tension unit seems to have slight differences between different machines.  The one part that I now know I am missing is the tension release plate.  I thought it was the pin and got that from Helen Howes.  I will now have to ordert another part. 

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Re: problems with 15k
« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2017, 00:36:23 AM »
Have you looked up the serial number on ismacs? I guess you might have a 15K30, but identifying the subnumber of a 15 requires a bit of investigation. It was in production for a very long time,  introduced in 1879 as "Improved Family" and with a few alterations it was given the name "model 15" in 1895.  Over the decades it went through minor changes and I don't think there is a complete overview of them on the web, but reasonably good descriptions of the various chages can be searched up.

Around 1930 (or a couple of years before) a version with stitch length lever and reverse was introduced. Around this point they were given a tension dial with numbers 0 to 9. I think Singer generally stopped making them in the very early 1960s, but they have been productions of them relatively recently in China, Taiwan and India.

That's why it's a bit hard to rule out any differences or a single type of tensioner. As mentioned earlier I know there are at least two types, the one you have and the later version with a numbered dial. Another thing is threading, it can differ slighly too.

Either way, model 15 is a favorite model for many, particularly among quilters and those wo do free motion emboridery. It's one of the most bullit proof models too, handles everything you can fit under the presser foot and some insist it does a better stitch than a 201. My favorite machine is a 201K, so it's a bit hard for me to insist one is better than the other.

« Last Edit: November 26, 2017, 00:39:43 AM by arrow »