The Sewing Place

Singer 15 knee lever operation

suessis

Singer 15 knee lever operation
« on: March 14, 2017, 16:54:22 PM »
Hiya, need some help here please. I have just acquired a knee lever 15, which I'm excited about. I have a question about the wiring and main motor. There seems to be a suppressor unit wired in to the circuit to the motor after the mains socket. Is this suppressor necessary anymore and if not do I remove it? If I remove it do I take the wires labelled motor off and fasten them to the right screws in the mains socket? Gosh this is difficult to explain! I have to say that so far I've plugged in and switched on without the knee lever, there's power because the very old bulb blew, so I need a new one of those. I guess my next move is to try with the lever and see if it works. It didn't cost a lot because it wasn't working, no movement of works at all. The fact that the bobbin case was firmly wedged in the wrong place may have something to do with that, works when you turn the flywheel now. Any help appreciated, please. By the way is Arrow on here, haven't noticed any posts?

arrow

Re: Singer 15 knee lever operation
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2017, 21:03:03 PM »
If the supressors look a bit like batteries with wires out the ends, yes, you can take them off and no worries. The wires need to follow the same path of course. The capacitors are there to make sure the motor doesn't interfere with radio and TV signals, and it will run just as well with out them. I don't think these capacitors are as important these days, since wiring for antennas and signals are much more  more insulated. I've had no problem with my old 99K after it was rewired, and they were never replaced, just taken away. These are usually the reason for short ciruiting, blow ups in pedals, bulbs etc. Bulbs don't age by just sitting there and it was likely all fine. Inspect the wiring carefully for cracked or deteriorating insulation, if it's a pre 1950s machine the original wiring is always in need of replacing (usually even beyond testing). There are wiring diagrams on the web if you need to rewire fully.

Cheesecake

Re: Singer 15 knee lever operation
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2017, 11:16:21 AM »
I have similar issue with a knee 201k-3.  Is your black box wired to both motor and all 3 points in the socket (sorry got no electric language)?  Mine has 3 wires coming out of the socket and into the box but not to anything else.  As it's a sealed up box with gunk in it, I'm not sure it could be rewired so also wondering if necessary to reattach as it's wires are in tad worse condition than my motors and I'm going to replace those.
All the wiring diagrams, old manuals and pictures I can find of motors don't mention this box but they do make me feel more confident and taking motors apart and rewiring etc.

arrow

Re: Singer 15 knee lever operation
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2017, 18:22:40 PM »
I'm not sure what the box might be, you have to post a picture.

suessis

Re: Singer 15 knee lever operation
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2017, 17:12:44 PM »
Thanks for the advice Arrow. I've been away, and finally got back and onto the wiring. The suppressor was an external box, wired in between the top motor and the power attachment. Taking photos on my phone I removed this, and rewired the motor wires to the power attachment. It all checks out with the motor handbook, and online. I switched on (fearfully) and did some test sewing. Running fine, sewing beautifully, even if only scrap fabric, lovely. The only problem now is a lack of bobbins, I'm using one nicked from another machine, so I've ordered some. Using a knee pedal feels rather odd, I keep feeling for the foot pedal. This machine is a keeper, not just a do-upper and pass on to someone else.

arrow

Re: Singer 15 knee lever operation
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2017, 20:35:17 PM »
Nice to hear the problems is solved. I have bumped into supressors like these in pedals as well as near the motor. I quickly adjusted to knee lever speed control, going from years on various Bernina machines to an old Singer 99. I also have an Elna Supermatic with a knee controller that's in regular use. I haven't owned a model 15 yet, but I know replacement bobbins can be a bit of an issue. If you suspect there might be something odd about the bobbins you received, it just might be. It happens all the time, and bobbins should behave problem free.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2017, 20:37:17 PM by arrow »

Cheesecake

Re: Singer 15 knee lever operation
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2017, 18:06:30 PM »
Was yours similar to this?  It was only connected to the socket with 3 wires not the motor directly, it has a parts number but internet search didn't help.  Glad yours is working well, I also find the knee lever a bit odd just now, I find I sit much further left than normal.

DalbyAU

Re: Singer 15 knee lever operation
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2017, 04:10:20 AM »
I just could never get used to the knee controllers on my vintage Singers and had them rewired to use Singer pedals.  I feel I have more speed control with a pedal.


arrow

Re: Singer 15 knee lever operation
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2017, 21:20:31 PM »
What we prefer is individual, and what works for you is fine. I would say neither gives more or less control (Promise! I have both types and use them). We are used to pedals these days, and at some point in the late 1960s hardly any machines came with knee lever anymore. The pedal wasn't a new thing compared to knee lever, in the early 1900s, when electricty still wasn't in every house, both were available.  Around 1930 when the electrical motor and lights became more common (prices dropped) both options were possible and it looks like it always have been. From what I have noticed here, it also looks like most machines in bent wood cases, wood  bases in general and cabinets had the knee lever controller though. The suitcase type machines often have pedal; it's often machines from the 50s, some late 40s. Later cabinets usually have a knee lever bracket with a button type pedal inside, both options in one. Bernina kept the option for knee lever control longer than most makers, but gradually fewer from around 1960. The internal resistor part is exactly the same on both options, (one or two stacks of carbon disks encased in plastic or porcelain); knee lever has stronger spring and is a bit larger, but generally works exactly the same. Some of new pedals we buy today work differently, but they weren't introduced until decades after Singer stopped making model 15s and 201s. Those brown bakelite button pedals can go from zero to full speed and little inbetween, which means it needs to be adjusted; I guess it's the same for knee lever controller too. If one gives better control than another, I that's likely the explanation.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2017, 21:34:20 PM by arrow »

KayK

Re: Singer 15 knee lever operation
« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2017, 20:06:49 PM »
I have a knee lever 201k, which sews beautifully, and I seem to have pretty good control of speed, but I have recently been bitten by the Free Motion bug, which it also copes with wonderfully.  However, my leg isn't coping very well - I had a really sore place above my knee for a couple of days, and couldn't fathom it out - It felt I had walked into something!!

I then fathomed it was the knee lever!  I have been spending more time FMQ'ing than I would usually do, so that must be it!

So folks,  is it easy to change to a foot pedal? Can I just 'plug and go' or do I need to do anything else?
I have learnt by my mistakes: Sewing machines now are Bernina 720, Bernina 1008, Bernina 801 from 1981, Brother overlocker, ancient but works well

arrow

Re: Singer 15 knee lever operation
« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2017, 20:15:09 PM »
I have a knee lever 201k, which sews beautifully, and I seem to have pretty good control of speed, but I have recently been bitten by the Free Motion bug, which it also copes with wonderfully.

I don't know about your leg, but maybe pad the lever until you sort out the plug and pedal? I have a 201K too, I have managed to freemotion on it, and I know several others do it perfectly too. At the moment I have an issue with very small stitches and I don't know what to do about it. How have you set up yours? I know it's all about tension, thread and adjustments, but it's not always easy.

KayK

Re: Singer 15 knee lever operation
« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2017, 22:26:42 PM »
I don't know about your leg, but maybe pad the lever until you sort out the plug and pedal? I have a 201K too, I have managed to freemotion on it, and I know several others do it perfectly too. At the moment I have an issue with very small stitches and I don't know what to do about it. How have you set up yours? I know it's all about tension, thread and adjustments, but it's not always easy.

Excellent idea!! I can easily make a pad for it!

for FMQ i have it set at:  tension 3, stitch length 0, and am using a 14 microtex needle, with Guterman sulky thread on top and monofilament in the bobbin - no problems at all - no skipping, no thread breaking.  I do get tiny stitches if the machine runs too fast (me shoving hard with leg!!) and if the fabric should 'stick' a bit, but I have polished the machine bed with Auto Glym car polish so is nice and slippy!
I have learnt by my mistakes: Sewing machines now are Bernina 720, Bernina 1008, Bernina 801 from 1981, Brother overlocker, ancient but works well

Barnyard

Re: Singer 15 knee lever operation
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2017, 08:34:39 AM »
Hi Suessis. Just read your thread and as a new member have not been able to reply prior to now. I too own a 201k with knee lever and as part of its restoration I rewired it to use both foot pedal and knee lever. It was a quite simple and straightforward job and if you can wire a plug then you can also do this. If you would like me to post images and directions of how to do it just ask. It is easier and neater if you use one of the straight through power leads as opposed to the bakelite one where both power and pedal enter through the same hole underneath.

All the best
Barny