The Sewing Place

How much?!

snoozi soozi

How much?!
« on: June 10, 2020, 10:25:56 AM »
Just received an email from TATB introducing their latest pattern - pyjama bottoms/shorts, where they're asking 12 quid for the printed pattern or over 8 quid for the PDF. WTF  :faints:
Let it sew, let it sew, let it sew

BrendaP

Re: How much?!
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2020, 10:38:46 AM »
I've got a couple of free scrubs patterns which you could use for PJ bottoms. :trousers:
Brenda.  My machines are: Corona, a 1953 Singer 201K-3, Caroline, a 1940 Singer 201K-3, Thirza, 1949 Singer 221K, Azilia, 1957 Singer 201K-MK2 and Vera, a Husqvarna 350 SewEasy about 20 years old. Also Bernina 1150 overlocker and Elna 444 Coverstitcher.
http://paternoster.orpheusweb.co.

UttaRetch

Re: How much?!
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2020, 10:45:41 AM »
@snoozi soozi, that's a lot considering you are using your own paper and ink to print the pattern.  Not to mention time spent sticking the beastly thing together.

Missie

Re: How much?!
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2020, 14:50:53 PM »
@snoozi soozi, that's a lot considering you are using your own paper and ink to print the pattern.  Not to mention time spent sticking the beastly thing together.

It's not if you consider the time that is involved in developing and testing a pattern as that is essentially what you are paying for (and I'm making no comment here on TATB).  In the same way that we should not undervalue our sewing work, neither should we undervalue those that  make the patterns.  There is also economies of scale to consider as well as the independents do not have the wide network nor coverage that the Big 4 have, (ie the more that are sold, the cheaper it is to produce) which should also be taken into consideration.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2020, 15:47:25 PM by Missie »

Vezelay

Re: How much?!
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2020, 15:16:14 PM »
When you consider that Tilly usually asks £13.50 for the paper pattern and £11.50 per pdf, £8 for the PJ bottoms sounds like a bargain! ;)

Kwaaked

Re: How much?!
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2020, 16:09:09 PM »
In all fairness, @Missie this pant pattern is two pieces with buttonholes for drawstrings. 

Work wise, at most, is two drafts and two gradings.  You can draft this whole pattern in about 15 minutes with little to no experience...by hand.  Make two, like you're supposed to for the size range, you've now got 30 minutes invested...and can test the mock up for fit. 

So you make the mock ups, and you can make PJ pants in an hour for this, even being a slow sewer (more experience, industrial machines this can be dropped to 15 minutes a pair, especially if you take short cuts and sew the elastic on the waist band rather then a casing).  You don't have to make them nice, just test the fit, so you're not ironing or finishing...pinning the hem up to the hem length tests that.  And you'll probably use the standard RTW 29.5" inseam plus whatever you want the hem to be, usually doubled with an additional 1.5-2" hem (although for mock up, you're not double folding it, just pinning the hem out) tests the hem length.  Time invested in fit is now, at most, 2 hours.  Assuming you have to tweak, you then double this time...tweak the draft, resew.  Also assuming you're making 2 for grading purposes and not grading just one pattern. 

Because of the fact this style of pattern is incredibly easy, it is also one of the first pants you learn to grade...and you can have a working nested pattern in all the sizes in 4 hours as a beginner.   This is assuming you're doing it by hand...a CAD program makes all of the time drop dramatically.

So time invested in the pattern?  6 and a half hours doing it all by hand.  Even if you make a mock up of each size (which is where pattern testers come in, but if you do it yourself add  another 8 hours for sewing (and assuming you sew really slow) you got two or three days of work for someone who has never done this at all.  It drops dramatically with CAD and sewing experience.

But, let's look at the pattern.  All sizes in one, so we can assume there is ONE draft and grading is done from that.  Probably the size 10, then graded 5 sizes either way.  30 minute draft, 30 minute mock up, hour for fitting with the fit model, then a few hours for grading (by hand, not CAD) you have about 6 hours in the pattern.  Hold off on releasing so you can get pattern testers (and PDF means there is NO expense to your company) another day for tweaks, another round of testing and you're working on the packaging, contract for printing and merchandising while the testing is going on...so the business has a few days invested in the pattern.  Cost wise, they likely have under $250 in the whole shebang.

A highly qualified (20 years of experience or more) pattern maker in Los Angeles or New York will cost about $75 an hour. Experienced professionals in second or third tier cities will charge $35-$60 an hour. (Fashion Incubator, and they will charge for the hour.)
While prices can vary quite a bit, the usual range is from $15 to $25 per size for a 1-6 piece pattern.  (Fashion Incubator)
A sample is about $75 for this plus cost of fabric, trims and notions(production samples, also FI) (Where I got my $250 tag, this is less in pounds).  Size tests then are free.

So yes, I can see where 8 or 12 GBP is a little much.  At this price, she only has to sell about 15 to make any profit. 

https://sewguide.com/sew-pyjama-pants/ draft your own
https://5outof4.com/product/pajama-pants/ free with low rise/regular, capri, shorts, pants and include a pocket.  No need for a separate file.

Editing here: like anything, you are also paying for the brand name.  Also drawstring holes are pretty standard in all garments of this type: 3/4" from center seam, 1/2" buttonhole.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2020, 16:12:52 PM by Kwaaked »

MitchOfTheNorth

Re: How much?!
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2020, 19:48:45 PM »
I have a pile of these pants that came with every pajama pattern I've ever bought (and paid less for the entire pattern than what she wants for just the pants).  This pattern is cheaper and more interestingTofino.
Stashbusting 2022
Goal:  50 meters
Total:  32.5 meters

UttaRetch

Re: How much?!
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2020, 08:37:35 AM »
I like the piping on the trousers and the fabric choice.

dolcevita

Re: How much?!
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2020, 11:11:42 AM »
The tofino lounge pants are really nice, I've made them a few times now. They're drafted for a pear shape, too, with a higher hip:waist ratio than usual.

charlotte

Re: How much?!
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2020, 11:54:17 AM »
I saw this and thought the same, then I thought "good for them - they obviously have a market, and if they have people willing to pay that for the second simplest pattern in the world (first being an elastic/drawstring skirt, obviously) then people must really value their patterns/instructions."

I think for a beginner seamstress, patterns like TATB are much less intimidating than Big 4 patterns. I have also realised recently that some people (i.e. my mum, sample size of one, who does sew) really struggle to see past frumpy fabric choices and basic line drawings on pattern envelopes, so the well styled envelope image, plus a photo walk-through of how to apply piping etc. is probably is worth the £8 for some people.

Obviously I will not be buying them. But I did buy and sew their Cleo pinafore recently and I love it!

Missie

Re: How much?!
« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2020, 12:01:42 PM »
@Kwaaked I didn't look at the pattern at all.  I don't think an inexperienced would be able to make a pants pattern that easily.  You are looking at it from a very knowledgeable experienced perspective rather than from an inexperienced POV.

But nevertheless, my point still stands as people often comment negatively on the cost of a PDF pattern.  It takes times to create a pattern (and to do the grading for different sizes) and should not be undervalued because they are being printed at home.  The beauty of a PDF pattern is in the instant gratification rather than having to wait for it to come through the post.

wrenkins

Re: How much?!
« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2020, 12:26:27 PM »
Same when you buy a book. You're not paying for the paper!  :)
Harbouring resentment is like swallowing poison and waiting for the other person to die!