The Sewing Place

The Perfect Stitch

Sewot

The Perfect Stitch
« on: July 15, 2020, 14:04:48 PM »
I have opened this thread under Vintage machines as the Singer 201 is known to be the perfect stitcher. Crickey I have started something now......TAKE COVER!!!
I am of course aware that other older, newer and different brands can as well.
But can some one please define what exactly is a perfect stitch?
I have googled it and dozens of replies say when the tension is even on both sides thats perfect.
Lets go deeper.
I have noticed with some machines that each stitch although in a straight line is slightly angled.
Other machines can sew the stitch dead straight.
My 201 sews in a straight line ( with some of my help) but the stitches are at a very slight angle to each other.
I think this is common with a lot of machines.
Is this stitch still referrred to as perfect or to be perfect must the stitch be dead straight as well?
Sorry to be OCD about this but I would like to know what is meant by the perfect stitch.
Its only because I am striving to set my tensions on my 201 to optimal and I am a bit of a machine loving geek who loves to tweek.
Also, I have been asked to post some pics of what I have made so under which heading should I do that please?

Peter

Efemera

Re: The Perfect Stitch
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2020, 14:16:51 PM »
I just read about this yesterday... modern machines do a slightly angled straight stitch whereas the old mechanical ones do a dead straight line... I prefer the straight line.

Acorn

Re: The Perfect Stitch
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2020, 14:26:19 PM »
If your made items are clothing, you could start a diary in the 'Members' Diaries' section in 'In the Wardrobe'.  If they are patchwork or quilting (I suspect not, but I'm being thorough!) there is a Darkside Diaries section in 'Patchwork & Quilting ... Welcome to the Darkside'.

If they don't fit into either, there is an 'Accessories' section for hats, gloves, bags etc, a 'House Beautiful' section for upholstery and furnishings, a machine embroidery section, and a knitting and crochet section.  There are even sections for underwear, dancewear and bridal!!

If you do post in the wrong place one of our admins or moderators will happily move the post for you.   :)
I might look as though I'm talking to you, but inside my head I'm sewing.

Lilian

Re: The Perfect Stitch
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2020, 14:39:05 PM »
To me a 'perfect stitch' is a very straight line but also a balanced tension.  My 99k handcrank does exactly that.  My 201k/2 is very near to that.  One thing I think affects the straight stitch is the pressure of the foot and being able to hold the fabric perfectly straight as you sew.  :) :vintage:
Willing but not always able :)

Esme866

Re: The Perfect Stitch
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2020, 17:59:03 PM »
A perfect stitch is a tension balanced stitch that sews in a straight line.

Once home machines were able to zig zag, they began making a "straight" seam that actually produced stitches at an almost imperceptible angle. I have only ever found this to be a problem when I attempted to make Jean's. A double stitched flat fell seam, on denim with contrasting thread was not achievable on either of the mechanical zig zag's I've owned. I always thought it was me and not the machines, until I began studying vintage machines and tailoring.

It was disappointing to hear that a 201 wasn't stitching perfect. It would be my guess that over its 60 to 80 year life span it received enough usage to cause some wear. Makes me wonder if I'll have the same problem with the 15 I've just acquired.

At least now, with the internet, there should be some help available on one of the vintage sites to help determine if a worn part may need replacing, or maybe a slight adjustment needs to occur. Either is a definite possibility.

I have topstitched numerous shirts and dresses with my zig zag mechanicals and produced items that looked superb.

Bulky items made with heavy fabrics using large stitches with contrasting thread are truly the only time that "perfect stitch" becomes elusive. I have top stitched numerous home deck projects with upholstery fabric and coordinating thread and never had an issue. I've even used contrasting thread at times and been very pleased with the results.

I think denim and leather are most likely to bring up this potential problem.

Hope this helps a bit.

BrendaP

Re: The Perfect Stitch
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2020, 18:21:21 PM »
The way a lockstitch is formed the needle thread and bobbin thread twist around each other between each stitch.  If teh tension is correct the twist will be between the two layers of fabric.

Because that twist is always in the same direction the stitches will always be very slightly at an angle.  All lock stitch machines form the stitch in the same way.  The old vintage machines didn't do anything different.

It may well be more noticeable on a zig-zag machine than on a straight stitch only machine; possibly because the wide needle hole allows more play than the small needle hole of a straight stitcher? 

@Esme866  Possibly using a single needle in a coverstitch machine to make a chainstitch would give a straighter stitch.  A lot of RTW jeans have two parallel lines of chainstitch on the felled seams, presumably an industrial machine with 2 needles and 2 loopers.
Brenda.  My machines are: Corona, a 1953 Singer 201K-3, Caroline, a 1940 Singer 201K-3, Thirza, 1949 Singer 221K, Azilia, 1957 Singer 201K-MK2 and Vera, a Husqvarna 350 SewEasy about 20 years old. Also Bernina 1150 overlocker and Elna 444 Coverstitcher.
http://paternoster.orpheusweb.co.

Esme866

Re: The Perfect Stitch
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2020, 19:27:16 PM »
@BrendaP - hmmmm... site is screwy today. Not sure this will "mention" properly.

While both vintage straight stitch and mech zz machines do use the lock stitch, it's my understanding the engineering design utilized to mechanically move the needle from side to side for zz increased the "angularity factor" of the straight seam -this making it less straight. Early attempts at creating a zz actually moved the fabric from side to side.

Many high end bespoke tailors still use vintage machines due to their straight stitch quality. An interesting video to watch on Youtube is in a series Anthony Bourdain did that was sponsored by Balvenie Scotch regarding truly gifted Craftsmen. I can't remember names at the moment ( a life-long problem) One episode featured a tailor in upstate NewYork, who happens to also be an actor and a boxer. His work is superb. His machine is in the era of the 15's. Could be anything old, black, and singer straight stitch. I'm not good at spotting which is which.

As for "needle hole"  - I'm not sure what you mean here. Needle hole to me is the puncture made in the fabric by the needle. As I would usually be using larger needles on a 15 or 201 than on my zz, the vintage machine would produce the larger hole.

I definitely believe I would find a cover stitch more useful than a serger for my needs, but definitely not an option for the foreseeable future. A free #15 is it. Can't even afford the paint job it desperately needs - though of course I have the time - story of my life.

Covid sux. :headbang:

Lilian

Re: The Perfect Stitch
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2020, 19:54:27 PM »
I think the needle hole @BrendaP mentioned might be the hole in the needle plate. A single hole as opposed to the wide hole needed for zigzag.
Willing but not always able :)

BrendaP

Re: The Perfect Stitch
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2020, 21:45:39 PM »
@Lilian   and @Esme866   Yes, by needle hole I did mean the hole in the needle plate.

I think that the narrow presser foot and close together feed dogs on a vintage straight stitcher might help in keeping the stitch formation straight.  Whilst I totally agree that my Singer 201 makes a much better straight stitch that my zig-zag Husqvarna, it can only be down to the minutiae of differing tensions and stresses on the threads, the actual stitch formation is the same.
 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]  
Brenda.  My machines are: Corona, a 1953 Singer 201K-3, Caroline, a 1940 Singer 201K-3, Thirza, 1949 Singer 221K, Azilia, 1957 Singer 201K-MK2 and Vera, a Husqvarna 350 SewEasy about 20 years old. Also Bernina 1150 overlocker and Elna 444 Coverstitcher.
http://paternoster.orpheusweb.co.

Lilian

Re: The Perfect Stitch
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2020, 21:53:59 PM »
Seeing that @BrendaP tells me that if the tension is too tight even if it is balanced, that would cause the stitches to be slanted. Hmm never thought about it that way before  8)
Willing but not always able :)

Sewot

Re: The Perfect Stitch
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2020, 21:54:20 PM »
Thank you for your replies so far.
In order to be clear  my 201 does sew in a dead straight line.
I have tested it with a piece of lined paper which needed little guidance.
I then put a ruler over the line of stitch holes.
Dead straight.
Wear with this particular machine is not an option as I know its entire history and it has hardly been used.
The angles I speak of are only just perceptable.
I have pondered for many hours wondering why and I think Brenda has nailed it.
Of course, as the bottom thread gets taken around the bobbin, a twist is induced which would explain the ever so slight angles in the finished stitch.
Phew....thats that one explained.
So now the question is....
Does your Singer 201 sew slightly angled stitches or are they dead straight.
You can see in the pic attached that my stitches are pretty much straight ( on this material ).
When I did a line of stiching on two layers of thick linen, then a slight angle is perceptable.
I am still delighted with the stitch but just need to know if this is normal.
In the image I have three lines of stitching.
8, 12 and 30 stitches to the inch.
The 30 stitches line is dead straight.
I will post an image of the angled stitch on linen later.




BrendaP

Re: The Perfect Stitch
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2020, 22:29:26 PM »
  [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]  

The red is stitched with a 1953 Singer 201K, the grey with a Husqvarna about half it's age.
In both I can see a couple of instances where the thread comes out of the perforation slightly to the left and enters the next perforation slightly to the right.

The tension balance isn't 100% with the grey, the twist between the two threads is very slightly nearer to the underside, I got it spot on with the red.
Brenda.  My machines are: Corona, a 1953 Singer 201K-3, Caroline, a 1940 Singer 201K-3, Thirza, 1949 Singer 221K, Azilia, 1957 Singer 201K-MK2 and Vera, a Husqvarna 350 SewEasy about 20 years old. Also Bernina 1150 overlocker and Elna 444 Coverstitcher.
http://paternoster.orpheusweb.co.

BrendaP

Re: The Perfect Stitch
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2020, 22:47:32 PM »
@Sewot
Found it!  I knew I'd seen it in print somewhere.
  [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]  

This comes from a Threads publication 'Beyond the Pattern'

ETA:
Reading the article with that diagram it says:
"The natural curve in a straight stitch caused by the upper thread emerging from one side of a knot and entering the next knot on the other side, always slants in the same direction, as shown in the photo..  This curve will be less noticeable  when you sew with a straight-stitch foot and throat plate, because the narrow holes in the foot and plate support the fabric all round the area where the needle enters the fabric, reducing any unwanted fabric movement."

So I didn't dream that up, I had actually learned about it ages ago!
« Last Edit: July 15, 2020, 23:10:06 PM by BrendaP »
Brenda.  My machines are: Corona, a 1953 Singer 201K-3, Caroline, a 1940 Singer 201K-3, Thirza, 1949 Singer 221K, Azilia, 1957 Singer 201K-MK2 and Vera, a Husqvarna 350 SewEasy about 20 years old. Also Bernina 1150 overlocker and Elna 444 Coverstitcher.
http://paternoster.orpheusweb.co.

Sewot

Re: The Perfect Stitch
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2020, 23:11:51 PM »
Brenda.
You are a wizard.
This explains the slight twist in the stitch and also the twist induced as it goes around the bobbin.
Thanks for your images and time taken.
Heres a pic of the same stitch, same length and same thread sewn on my wonderful newly acquired 201P!!!
I will post a pic of my machine later on.
I am more than happy with this stitch.
I don't think I can get it more perfect.
The tensions seem right both sides.
On the folded linen hem with some mass for the needle to work efficiently, the stitch really comes out.
If the cotton was the same colour it would be hard to criticise it.
So my machine is set 100%?
I think, where you write that certain stitches were not quite there is due to the fabric structure?
Ie...I have found that when I sew Calico, the needle will hop into the easiest part of the fabric thereby giving a wonkey line.
Someone said that when sewing Denim they experienced this.
Denim of course has definate lines of warp and weft and the needle will go to the easiest spot.
At least thats my theory.
Please correct me if wrong.
Thanks for your valueable input.

Kwaaked

Re: The Perfect Stitch
« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2020, 23:48:48 PM »
This is also one of the reasons they claim you can tell stitch quality differences between an industrial and a domestic.

My personal opinion also is that plastic parts vs. metal makes a slight difference in tolerance in the machine and it comes out on the stitches, assuming all is working and adjusted in the machine.  Also thread makes a difference in the slant: modern spools have the thread wound different and comes off the spool different then vintage spools.  Modernly, industrial spools work the same as the vintage ones do.

Saying that, I use domestics.  Generally I use an industrial thread holder attached to my table where the spool is not on the machine at all, or I use a mug and wire behind the machine, spool on the machine when I wind it myself (usually wooden spools).
My 66 treadle (1928) is perfectly straight stitches if I use thread I have wound myself or industrial cones.   If I use a tool to make modern spools work, it's 1/32 slant.
My Davis evenfeed slants 1/64  regardless of thread.
My 99 (1940) slants 1/16 with modern spools, 1/32 industrial. 
My 201 slants 1/32 with modern spools, 1/64 with those I wind myself and none with industrial spools.
My featherweight (1938) slants 1/64 with self wound and industrial, 1/16 with modern.
My Pfaff I have for zig zag is a huge whatever.  It slants 1/16-1/64 depending on BRAND of thread.  Worse with Gutermann. 

All of these are metal mechanical machines.