The Sewing Place

Alter a pattern or a toile?

justpottering

Alter a pattern or a toile?
« on: May 02, 2022, 17:44:55 PM »
I was just wondering which method you prefer when making alterations for a garment

on the one hand you can measure and adjust the commercial pattern
on the other hand you can make up a toile according to the pattern sizing and then make alterations on the toile for areas where changes are needed.

Which do you do? I do a bit of both but the reason I am asking is this week I have been altering a pattern, mainly for practice before I show a class how to do it. I tend to stick to styles I already know will suit me and my shape and have slopers to use for reference.
Having altered the pattern according to the techniques, I then made a toile, mostly it was ok, especially in my problem areas which is what I altered first, but then found that the toile needed further adjustments in other areas, and I then transfered said alterations to the original pattern piece and then cut out the garment from the fabric I wanted to use.

In the past I have just gone with a toile first, then made alterations to it and then used the toile as the pattern which, to be fair, I find more accurate.

Let me know your thoughts please if you would, I have cake* to tempt you to respond  0_0

Disclaimer: please be aware that cake can totally destroy any work you do on altering patterns or toiles  :laughing:
JP
Dressmaker - but first......tea

Ouryve

Re: Alter a pattern or a toile?
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2022, 18:12:09 PM »
One of the limitations of using the toile as the pattern is when whole darts need to be moved. I'm beginning to realise that if a pattern already has a dart or has some seam shaping over the bust, it's often pretty much a given that I need to lower it about an inch before I cut anything out. Both of these things change the outline of a pattern piece rather than merely requiring new markings. I suppose tissue fitting can go some way towards preventing this from being an issue but it's something that I'm still getting the hang of (I don't often wear particularly fitted clothes and don't have anyone who can help constructively when I need extra eyes or another pair of hands)
Janome M50QDC - "Jane" - Small, cute and hard working. Pfaff Quilt Ambition 630 - "Pfanny" - Pfickle. Bernina L450 - "Bernie" - Very hungry. Bernina 830 Record - "Becky"

Bumblebuncher

Re: Alter a pattern or a toile?
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2022, 19:37:26 PM »
I make an inside out toile from the pattern making sure I am aware what is the correct side before cutting out the main thing.  It just makes it easier to do adjustments if the seams are easily available to change
As it neared the top of the grade, it went more slowly. However, it still kept saying, "I—think—I—can, I—think—I—can." It reached the top by drawing on bravery and then went on down the grade, congratulating itself by saying, "I thought I could,  I thought I could."

b15erk

Re: Alter a pattern or a toile?
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2022, 19:47:42 PM »
I do both.  If it's just a simple pattern, I would tweak the toile, and transfer the alterations to the pattern - especially if I want to use it again.

If it's a one off, I'll cut the pattern from the toile.

I'm self taught, so rules don't apply to me... :laughing:

Jessie

Jessie, who is very happy to be here!!  :),  but who has far too many sewing machines to be healthy, and a fabric stash which is becoming embarrassing.

Kwaaked

Re: Alter a pattern or a toile?
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2022, 08:21:17 AM »
It depends.

I use slopers and adjust the pattern and then fit the toile.
I fit the toile.
I adjust the pattern.

Some depends on the pattern.  Some depends on the person.

Ouryve makes a good point...I have to have an FBA and it changes the lines...in some cases considerably.  To that end, I typically use a sloper, redraft and then fit a toile more than once.

Class wise, I'd personally go with either a pattern that can be adjusted for the majority of people easier OR (and usually how I do it) toile method and often choose a pattern I have to do 2 or 3 times.  (Toile, alter, transfer, toile, alter, transfer...etc.)  I also don't usually use the pattern darts...I mark the excess at the apex and legs and then add them after tying it on the first time.

I use that as both the teaching of the technique and to ensure that , introduces the idea of slopers being useful (it cuts out one of the toile steps in general) and bodies are not the same.  One person may only need one toile after altering , another 4 or 5.  When I have taught I have a dress pattern that the skit takes one toile (I have to mark the darts) and the bodice takes 3 (by the time I do a FBA, I have to alter the shoulders, then I have to alter the back...each alteration changes the fit and I need a new toile to adjust the next part) and the sleeves take at least one. 


realale

Re: Alter a pattern or a toile?
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2022, 11:57:16 AM »
I have my 'standard' alterations that I make to every pattern before I cut out then I make a toille and tweak it from that.

I did a pattern making course and made several slopers that fit me so I have a fair idea of what to do to make things fit. However, since that course, I have expanded in several areas  :embarrassed: and need to make new slopers but until I do I just alter the pattern to my needs. The worst was trousers - I did those sooo many times. I think I made three toilles after each toille got so hacked about and resewn as to be almost useless. I now have lovely fitting trousers though!!  :P
So many beers, so little time.

Ohsewsimple

Re: Alter a pattern or a toile?
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2022, 15:00:27 PM »
If using a commercial pattern I do my usual adjustments to the pattern to start with.  Then I do a toile and alter that.  I normally use the toile as a pattern.  But have been known to alter the pattern as well.  Me made patterns I can normally just make a new style from and be fairly confident about fit.  I have so many alterations that commercial patterns usually give a headache  :laughing:

Puzzler

Re: Alter a pattern or a toile?
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2022, 16:03:37 PM »
I have never attempted altering a toile. There is no way round the myriad of alternations I need to make on every pattern. Even with those I struggle to achieve a good fit. I often sew up a toile, try it on and promptly stash it away in a drawer.

Greybird

Re: Alter a pattern or a toile?
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2022, 09:26:19 AM »
Welcome back @Puzzler ! You were missed!

Ohsewsimple

Re: Alter a pattern or a toile?
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2022, 11:45:13 AM »
Nice to see you back @Puzzler
Have you got a self drafted block or any pattern that fits you reasonably well?   If so you can use that as a starting block for other patterns.  I find I get a much better result that way. 
Is there anyone who could help fit?   Can you put photos up here for some help?
Trying to think of ways round it. 

Puzzler

Re: Alter a pattern or a toile?
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2022, 16:00:16 PM »
Have you got a self drafted block or any pattern that fits you reasonably well?   If so you can use that as a starting block for other patterns.  I find I get a much better result that way. 
Is there anyone who could help fit?   Can you put photos up here for some help?

No to the first question. I have lost weight over the last year and less busty than I used to be so it’s back to square one with the pattern alterations. I have never managed to take decent photos by myself. I know there are gadgets you can buy but I can’t be bothered. I will muddle through. Desperate for new togs.

Bumblebuncher

Re: Alter a pattern or a toile?
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2022, 16:45:39 PM »
I had a sloper that DD1 helped me with for the dress I made for her wedding.  It doesn't fit now and have no intention of going through that again!
I usually have  my dummy padded to my measurements (she always has a bra on padded with many, many shoulder pads) and make the toile on that to be played around with afterwards.  Measurements are taken each time I am making something but I rarely trust it these days.  I lost a lot of weight and rarely believe the dummy, that I have measured carefully, is the correct size and make things too big all the time  :laughing:
As it neared the top of the grade, it went more slowly. However, it still kept saying, "I—think—I—can, I—think—I—can." It reached the top by drawing on bravery and then went on down the grade, congratulating itself by saying, "I thought I could,  I thought I could."