The Sewing Place

What can I discover about a Frister+Rossmann from its serial number?

Marniesews

With ismacs and other sites, it's wonderful to know that you can find out basic information from a Singer serial number but what about Frister+Rossmann?

I spotted this lovely old machine and looked up its serial number on needlebar  which suggests that it's from around 1869-1875, much earlier than I'd thought.  It does say that they started again from zero after WWII but I don't think it's this young either from the type of shuttle. There again its body shape doesn't look anything like the early machines I've seen on various websites and the decals are much more sleek and the lettering much 'cleaner' than the earlier types which were very ornate so that set me wondering again.

So then I did an image search and found the same machine on sewmuse with a photo at the bottom of the page of the same machine (Model D Transverse Shuttle) it was given a date of 1937 (before the WWII return to zero) but its serial number of 149109 would suggest a date between 1876-1880 on the needlebar chart. Oh dear.

Any other suggestions?



Hopefully back more regularly! Ballroom sewing may be permanently paused but bag making is the current focus.

arrow

Re: What can I discover about a Frister+Rossmann from its serial number?
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2017, 00:30:15 AM »
With out any documenation I would guess the machine was made in the 1920s or 30s. The decals are simplified, black and gold only, but still elaborate enough to be prewar. From the Sewalot site I see elaborate decals were made up until the start of WWII. It has a smaller hand wheel than the very old machines, but still hard to know when German hand cranks went slimmer. I know from own experience it's easy to simiplify historical lines and develpments, and I know various models and technology went along side by side. If you read books you will come across terms like the "treadle era", and you will see round bobbin machines regarded as  more modern than long bobbin, but actually round bobbin machines were common in the last decades of the 19. century, and long bobbin machines where made up until the 1960s (at least model 128). Some describe the threadle era as over by the 20s, but it looks like Singer and Bernina made treadle cabinets all through the 50s, but I'm not sure when the last one was made.  On the web I have seen long bobbin swing arm zigzaggers (!). Lines of development aren't as one tracked or straight forward as we might be lead to think. I would not assume transverse shuttle models with the narrow slide plates went out of production with WWI, even though they gradually became fewer and fewer. In those days the were many more brands and makers than later, like today they merged, brand names were bought up, or went out of production. It's hard to give an accurate picture of the past. WWII were such a big break in many ways, it ruined a lot for many; including sewing machine production.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2017, 23:58:12 PM by arrow »

Marniesews

Re: What can I discover about a Frister+Rossmann from its serial number?
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2017, 01:19:21 AM »
It certainly demonstrates how easy us Singer owners have it, doesn't it?!  :)

I can't quite get to grips with just what is off kilter with this one. I can accept not really knowing but it's just the apparent contradictions between the serial numbers and dates that keep me trying to grasp the variables. I'm going to have to read up a bit more when the opportunity arises.  :[
Hopefully back more regularly! Ballroom sewing may be permanently paused but bag making is the current focus.

BrendaP

Re: What can I discover about a Frister+Rossmann from its serial number?
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2017, 09:44:22 AM »
I agree with Arrow that it looks to be 1920s/1930s, and that concurs with the Sewmuse website.  The bottom photo there is surely the same model as the one in your photo.

The Needlebar website does say " Where two numbers appear on your machine the first only is necessary in order to date it."  Maybe the number you saw was the second number, or maybe they have just got it wrong, after all it's just someone trying to piece together a jigsaw from snippets of information.
Brenda.  My machines are: Corona, a 1953 Singer 201K-3, Caroline, a 1940 Singer 201K-3, Thirza, 1949 Singer 221K, Azilia, 1957 Singer 201K-MK2 and Vera, a Husqvarna 350 SewEasy about 20 years old. Also Bernina 1150 overlocker and Elna 444 Coverstitcher.
http://paternoster.orpheusweb.co.