The Sewing Place

201 skipping stitches

BrendaP

201 skipping stitches
« on: September 16, 2017, 23:17:20 PM »
My older 201 had been sewing very nicely, but this evening I tried putting the buttonholer on and did some test pieces, but it didn't like the tweedy fabric which kept getting caught up.  I tried with feed dogs down and with the cover plate on and I tried both buttonholers, but it just wasn't going right, especially on the second half/going backwards side, and several tangles I ended up breaking a needle and I gave up in disgust.

Now the machine won't even sew a straight row of stitching on plain cotton fabric.   I've re-threaded top and bottom several times, tried two new needles but it's still the same and skips more stitches than it catches.

Have I knocked the timing out? :'(
Brenda.  My machines are: Corona, a 1953 Singer 201K-3, Caroline, a 1940 Singer 201K-3, Thirza, 1949 Singer 221K, Azilia, 1957 Singer 201K-MK2 and Vera, a Husqvarna 350 SewEasy about 20 years old. Also Bernina 1150 overlocker and Elna 444 Coverstitcher.
http://paternoster.orpheusweb.co.

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Re: 201 skipping stitches
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2017, 23:38:56 PM »
No, most likely not timing problems on the old straight stitchers, more like needle in the wrong way (flat side to the left on the 201), or maybe bobbin has been put in the wrong way and the thread will jump out of it's position. If you use a thin needle the buttonholers can act up, so a resonably good size for thread and fabric is important.

Both my 201s needed thorough cleaning behind the needle clamp; I scraped out heaps of grime and dust from the tiny groove in the needle bar. That's the only timing related problem I have had on these, it made the needle scrape against a point in the turning part under the hook and race.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2017, 12:32:59 PM by arrow »

BrendaP

Re: 201 skipping stitches
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2017, 09:39:26 AM »
Thank you Arrow  :*  :angel:

It was the needle in the wrong way  :fish:  and it's all better now.  That's what comes of sewing too late in the evening.

I'm going to have a go with the buttonholer on the other machine to see if it behaves any better with the knobbly, tweedy fabric.  If not it will have to be hand stitched buttonholes  :S
Brenda.  My machines are: Corona, a 1953 Singer 201K-3, Caroline, a 1940 Singer 201K-3, Thirza, 1949 Singer 221K, Azilia, 1957 Singer 201K-MK2 and Vera, a Husqvarna 350 SewEasy about 20 years old. Also Bernina 1150 overlocker and Elna 444 Coverstitcher.
http://paternoster.orpheusweb.co.

LeilaMay

Re: 201 skipping stitches
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2017, 11:04:03 AM »
I couldn't get nice buttonholes on a fabric with thick and thin areas - it prevents the smooth movement of the buttonholer against the fabric :(  Not sure there's a cure for this one, but let us know if it works
Leila

Madame Cholet

Re: 201 skipping stitches
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2017, 12:31:46 PM »
So glad you sorted out the skipping stitches BrendaP  :D
Would bound buttonholes be an option with the knobbly, tweedy fabric perhaps?

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Re: 201 skipping stitches
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2017, 12:42:14 PM »
I had only the black camless buttonholer at the time, and mine did nice buttonholes on knobly fabric; the threads and weave were a bit coarse and I didn't get a good result until I maxed out on needle size. I can recommend keeping a package of Schmetz 120/19 needles for this. I have a couple of packages of 140/22 needles of a Chinese brand, they aren't as finely made as Schmetz and others, but the large size is handy when sewing on odd things.

Are you using top stitch thread? The problems I have had with the buttonholer were tension related, and if it's like you  can never get tight enough upper tension it is usually about needle size, and it only happens on thicker or densely woven fabrics. The challenge is much the same on all machines though. An advantage with the old straight stitchers is the capability to take the large needle size. There's usually a way about it. Buttonholer problems are usually about even feed and correct stitch length.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2017, 12:51:09 PM by arrow »

BrendaP

Re: 201 skipping stitches
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2017, 13:41:36 PM »
DD and GS showed up for an hour or so, which meant I haven't done any sewing this morning and we're out now for lunch, so won't get a chance to sew until this evening.

I have a packet of old Singer needles (green packet) size 18 (110) and a packet of size 21 (130) so I'll give them a try.  When it comes to thread I've got every brand and thickness you can think of, and probably more!
http://paternoster.orpheusweb.co.uk/threads/threads.html
but not necessarily in the required colour. 

A rumage through the reels of machine thread has found a suitable colour spool of Superior Threads Perfect Quilter 17 wt (30/3 cotton) which is about as thick as you can get for regular sewing machines, and it suggests a 100/16 needle.  I'll use that, with the buttonholer if it will co-operate and by hand if it won't.
Brenda.  My machines are: Corona, a 1953 Singer 201K-3, Caroline, a 1940 Singer 201K-3, Thirza, 1949 Singer 221K, Azilia, 1957 Singer 201K-MK2 and Vera, a Husqvarna 350 SewEasy about 20 years old. Also Bernina 1150 overlocker and Elna 444 Coverstitcher.
http://paternoster.orpheusweb.co.

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Re: 201 skipping stitches
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2017, 14:12:59 PM »
The thickest thread I use is Gütermanns  polyester extra strength and top stitch, and the weight. I keep forgetting how thread weight numbers work and I have to look it up on a chart every time. Like I mention the large size needles for heavier fabrics have made the difference, like upholstery with coarser thread, twill weave wool, or densely woven cotton duck,... The #21 size Singer needles you have are top quality and the size isn't made anymore so don't waste them.

I think it's the large size eye and the groove on the side of the needle that solves the problem, or maybe just the sturdiness the thicker steel, less bening? The Chinese large size needles are all right, but not quite up to the best. They aren't cut or polished as finely. I have to say I haven't had any problem with the large size needles #20-22, only the thinner. Either way, I'm sure you have the solution right there among your sewing equipment. Gütermann sew-all weight is easy on all types of fabric, it's with the top stitch or fancier threads that's been a bit more of a challenge with bobbin tension and choice of needle.

StitchinTime

Re: 201 skipping stitches
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2017, 16:03:53 PM »
Could you use a tear-away or soluble stabiliser on top of the fabric? This might give a smoother surface for the buttonholer.

BrendaP

Re: 201 skipping stitches
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2017, 22:02:14 PM »
StitchinTime - The test sandwich is the same as the jacket - tweedy fabric - interfacing - lining - tweedy fabric but maybe I could squeeze a bit of tear-away underneath it all.

Arrow - Gütermann poly Extra Strong is a bit heavier than my Superior Threads Perfect Quilter so that should be OK.  Maybe I won't need to go as thick as the size 21 needle.

Re thread sizes:  It's a minefield, there are so many different systems in use, and that's why my book came about!  The most frequently encountered sizes are Metric Number (Nm) for poly threads and and English cotton count for cotton threads.  They are both indirect systems and get thicker as the number gets smaller. 

You sometimes see denier, mostly for silk thread, or Tex for more technical things.  They are direct measurements and the bigger the number the thicker the thread.
Brenda.  My machines are: Corona, a 1953 Singer 201K-3, Caroline, a 1940 Singer 201K-3, Thirza, 1949 Singer 221K, Azilia, 1957 Singer 201K-MK2 and Vera, a Husqvarna 350 SewEasy about 20 years old. Also Bernina 1150 overlocker and Elna 444 Coverstitcher.
http://paternoster.orpheusweb.co.

arrow

Re: 201 skipping stitches
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2017, 23:10:43 PM »
I have found threads that look about the same behave very differently. For a while I swore by mercierised cotton, because it was recommended in my 99K manual and it turned out to behave very nicely on a shirt I made. I was a bit hesitant on polyester after that, but later various Gütermann polyesters have turned out to be the strongest and most suitable for the job.

I once had two threads about the same and one behave differently, I could not understand why, but when I investgated further one had two strands twisted together, the other three strands.  For the basic jobs size 18 should be enough for Gütermann's extra strength, but I have upped the needle size a few times on difficult seams and fabric, flat felled seams have been a challenge on densely woven cotton duck a couple of times, but the Schmetz 19 needle worked, as well as the Chinese. Gütermann recommends size 16-20 (100- 120) for their top stitch thread, but I'm thinking 18 as the minium I match it up with.

BrendaP

Re: 201 skipping stitches
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2017, 09:45:50 AM »
A l-o-n-g time ago I wouldn't buy Drima polyester thread because it kept snapping, but other brands of poly were OK.  Then when I really got into looking at lacemaking threads and the first edition of my book, I realised why I had had problems with Drima - it's only 2 ply (2 strands twisted together).  For most sewing jobs you want 3 ply thread because it is stronger than the same thickness in 2 ply.

The main exception is embroidery, when there are only two plies (strands) the thread will flatten out and cover the surface of the fabric better.

I've one more bit of paper work to do and then I'll maybe get a chance to play with the buttonholer again.  But I've got builders here and awaiting a man to wuote for a new kitchen so I could get lots of interruptions.
Brenda.  My machines are: Corona, a 1953 Singer 201K-3, Caroline, a 1940 Singer 201K-3, Thirza, 1949 Singer 221K, Azilia, 1957 Singer 201K-MK2 and Vera, a Husqvarna 350 SewEasy about 20 years old. Also Bernina 1150 overlocker and Elna 444 Coverstitcher.
http://paternoster.orpheusweb.co.

BrendaP

Re: 201 skipping stitches
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2017, 11:58:32 AM »
Success!  0_0

Size 19 (120) needle, Perfect Quilter 30/3 thread and tissue paper underneath and the buttonholes are done and buttons sewn on.  The Jacket now just needs a final press.

Thank you to everyone who helped - I've learned not to try and do the tricky bits late in the evening as that's when silly mistakes like putting the needle in the wrong way round happen. :fish:
Brenda.  My machines are: Corona, a 1953 Singer 201K-3, Caroline, a 1940 Singer 201K-3, Thirza, 1949 Singer 221K, Azilia, 1957 Singer 201K-MK2 and Vera, a Husqvarna 350 SewEasy about 20 years old. Also Bernina 1150 overlocker and Elna 444 Coverstitcher.
http://paternoster.orpheusweb.co.

Elnnina

Re: 201 skipping stitches
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2017, 17:35:32 PM »
Brenda, if it is not too late, why not try bound buttonholes  they would look lovely on tweed.  However if you have to resort to hand sewn buttonholes, I was taught tailoring wise to use some gimp with the buttonhole twist worked over the top, and all closed up the gimp is not seen but strengthens the buttonholes.

This  was called  Strutts Super Glace Gimp by English Sewing, however I have never ever seen gimp again, which is a pity because it was very versatile and could be used in making raised pin tucks.

Now seeing that you have published a book on Threads, I wonder if you have come across gimp – I also have a sneaky suspicion that this can also be used in lace making?

Good luck with those buttonholes.

BrendaP

Re: 201 skipping stitches
« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2017, 20:42:37 PM »
Hi Elnnina
The buttonholes are done but they don't stand out and the buttonholer wouldn't take a second pass without jamming up - on less bulky fabric a second pass makes them look much better - so maybe I'll go over them by hand, maybe not.

I have seen all sorts of old and new threads.  I will buy something if I haven't seen it before, but sometimes an envelope just arrives in the post with a bit of cotton wound around a piece of card. :D  I've seen Strutts Milford Knitting cotton and Strutts Lustre knitting cotton and I've seen English Sewing Unity Glacé but nothing labelled as  Strutts Super Glace Gimp.

'Gimp' is one of those words which is a bit vague in definition - often it's a very round thread which might have a wire or thick monofilament at the core which is closely wrapped by finer filaments, or it can be a very firmly twisted 3 or 4 ply thread.  Either way it's firm and round. 
https://www.needlenthread.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/silk_gimp_02.jpg
In bobbin lacemaking a gimp is just a thick thread used to outline motifs within the design and is best if it's not firm, indeed  historically they sometimes just used several strands of the main thread wound as one onto a bobbin for use as a gimp.
http://gwydir.demon.co.uk/jo/laceold/exflower.jpg

PS, I've just read you PM, will answer in due course.
Brenda.  My machines are: Corona, a 1953 Singer 201K-3, Caroline, a 1940 Singer 201K-3, Thirza, 1949 Singer 221K, Azilia, 1957 Singer 201K-MK2 and Vera, a Husqvarna 350 SewEasy about 20 years old. Also Bernina 1150 overlocker and Elna 444 Coverstitcher.
http://paternoster.orpheusweb.co.