The Sewing Place

Gaping armhole - sleeveless dress

sewingj

Gaping armhole - sleeveless dress
« on: July 09, 2018, 19:56:05 PM »
I don`t usually go sleeveless these days but the hot weather has driven me to it.
So, I`m making a sleeveless dress
https://sewdirect.com/acatalog/Butterick-6448.html

the front of the armhole is ok but the back is cut back further than I like so I have added a bit to it.
But.. the back of the armhole is gaping quite badly.  I think that it might improve if I had a lower seamline just on the back bodice at the armhole edge (tapering to the neck edge) - so that the gape was pulled upwards.
Does that sound possible or would that distort the rest of the back bodice?

Any advice would be gratefully received as I am still very much a novice at this fitting lark (apologies if I haven`t explained this well!)  I don`t know if it is relevent or not but I`m quite small-busted.  Most of the info about gaping armholes seems to be concerned with them gaping at the front on well-endowed ladies
« Last Edit: July 09, 2018, 20:02:56 PM by sewingj »

crafter

Re: Gaping armhole - sleeveless dress
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2018, 23:00:09 PM »
For that sort of alteration a dart should have been placed in the pattern piece and then sort of flattened so there was no dart in the finished dress.

That is strange shaping at the back anyway.  Had it been the same as the front then it would have been easy to take in the excess along the seam.

If you have any fabric left then I would suggest cutting more back bodice pieces, otherwise try to insert a dart each side which looks as if should always have been there. :)  I don't think taking up at the shoulders will help in this situation.

BrendaP

Re: Gaping armhole - sleeveless dress
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2018, 23:06:07 PM »
Is the looseness up near the shoulder or down towards the armpit?

If it's up near the shoulder tightening the shoulder seam should do the trick.  Either just make the seam allowance bigger on both back and front, or take it all from the back, whichever works best.  If the seam is at the same angle as your shoulders make the new seam parallel to the existing one.  If your shoulders slope more than the existing shoulder seams take a wedge out to tighten the arm holes without affecting the neckline.  Either way you will need to make the same adjustment to the facings.

If the gaping is lower down it's a bit trickier to sort - ideally a small dart into the armscye, but that would look odd.  Indeed the whole back bodice looks a bit odd in the drawings.  I assume that diagonal seam is actually shaped to incorporate hidden darts, but IMO armscye princess seams (to match the front) would have looked better and been easier to alter.
Brenda.  My machines are: Corona, a 1953 Singer 201K-3, Caroline, a 1940 Singer 201K-3, Thirza, 1949 Singer 221K, Azilia, 1957 Singer 201K-MK2 and Vera, a Husqvarna 350 SewEasy about 20 years old. Also Bernina 1150 overlocker and Elna 444 Coverstitcher.
http://paternoster.orpheusweb.co.

Missie

Re: Gaping armhole - sleeveless dress
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2018, 09:53:24 AM »
Hmm, I don't think the back looks odd at all.  It adds a  bit of interest.  Assuming that there is too much to lose by pulling it into the shoulder seam, I think I would be inclined to pinch out the excess tapering it the diagonal seam.  Mark the dart on the pattern piece and close it (on the pattern piece) and you will have gotten rid of the excess.

Morgan

Re: Gaping armhole - sleeveless dress
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2018, 12:36:44 PM »
. . . the front of the armhole is ok but the back is cut back further than I like so I have added a bit to it.
But.. the back of the armhole is gaping quite badly. . . .

Rather than the back armhole being cut in too much, I wonder if what you need may be some back shaping adjustments.  The first thing it helps to do is work out what kind of shoulder and back shape your body is.  Shape matters, not just measurement, because it's different for everyone. 
Some adjustments to think about are are -

Shoulder slope and Shoulder seam position (ie. shoulder angle)
Broad Back Adjustment
Rounded Back Adjustment
Combination of Broad Back & Rounded back


It is important to check your shoulder slope and position compared with the pattern.
It helps to sort out the shoulder slope and angle before doing the back adjustments.
When doing any bodice fit adjustments, it helps to follow the order of -
1.  Shoulder slope and Shoulder seam position
then generally -
2.  Back (length & width & shaping) if required
3.  Front

This Threads Article about fitting the armhole is a good read to point you towards the right direction of what your shape needs

Broad Back & more shoulder length required Adjustment 1
Broad Back Adjustment 2 This doesn't alter the length of the shoulder seam
If you have a combination of both broad back and rounded back, do the broad back adjustment first.


This is a lovely (as it actually happens) video by Joy of one way of trying to measure how much adjustment is needed for a full or rounded back adjustment.

Note - some of these full or rounded back adjustments create a dart (or make an existing dart bigger).
If you prefer to remove a new dart, the process is to rotate it out.  There are plenty tutorials around about how to do that.

Watch this Rounded back Adjustment Video from 1.30.  It's often called rounded back and sometimes the dowager's hump adjustment but it's really about "fullness" across the back because we all have different postures, angles of shoulder blades and padding in different places.
Depending on where the fullness is on you, there are some different back shaping adjustments you can do.
This example of a high back adjustment is a variation that places a dart into the neckline rather than the shoulder
and here is Another example of a variation


This is another way to work with the fitting adjustments on a body with a toile/muslin.  Different issues are demonstrated, but it will give you a clue about where the fine tuning adjustments will be. These adjustments do need to be done on a toile/muslin and then the adjustments done to the pattern before cutting out the real fabric.


Hope you find something useful to help you work out which type of adjustment(s) you will make for your shape.


sewingj

Re: Gaping armhole - sleeveless dress
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2018, 16:05:50 PM »
thanks very much for those ideas.  I have now tried on an old sleeveless top and that is also gaping in the same place - which is towards the top of the back of the armhole - so it must be something about my shape rather than the pattern!  This dress was meant to be a quick make to see me through the hot weather so I will just try changing the shoulder seam and accept it might not be perfect.  When I have more time I will go through Morgan`s suggestions.

Fortunately I am working with a toile so haven`t spoilt any good fabric yet

sewingj

Re: Gaping armhole - sleeveless dress
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2018, 10:19:22 AM »
Here`s the finished dress.  I love the fabric but it turned into one of those projects that anything that could go wrong did go wrong, so in the end I was just desperate to get it finished - and the pattern has already been thrown away!  Having said that, the first time I wore it someone admired it so perhaps I will learn to love it in time!

 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]  

Sorry - thought I had turned the photo round - obviously not!
« Last Edit: July 22, 2018, 10:21:10 AM by sewingj »

Greybird

Re: Gaping armhole - sleeveless dress
« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2018, 11:08:45 AM »
Well the dummy looks great in it! I find if you hang things away and don't look at them for a couple of weeks, they tend to look a lot nicer when you do. I think it looks really nice.

BrendaP

Re: Gaping armhole - sleeveless dress
« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2018, 12:41:51 PM »
It looks good - and I love the fabric. 0_0
Brenda.  My machines are: Corona, a 1953 Singer 201K-3, Caroline, a 1940 Singer 201K-3, Thirza, 1949 Singer 221K, Azilia, 1957 Singer 201K-MK2 and Vera, a Husqvarna 350 SewEasy about 20 years old. Also Bernina 1150 overlocker and Elna 444 Coverstitcher.
http://paternoster.orpheusweb.co.

Lachica

Re: Gaping armhole - sleeveless dress
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2018, 21:31:16 PM »
That's lovely. Where'd did you get that fabric? I want some!
Mary
2020 stash: not gonna count, not gonna feel guilty.

Fabric Lover

Re: Gaping armhole - sleeveless dress
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2018, 00:13:45 AM »
Fabulous dress - fabric and pattern go so well together.
Stitching in Staffordshire with Style! (Well hopefully anyway)


Lachica

Re: Gaping armhole - sleeveless dress
« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2018, 08:45:12 AM »
@sewingj thanks. It looks so much nicer made up, I'd have skipped over that online. Off to buy now.....we live far enough away from each other, I think, to avoid turning up somewhere in the same dress!
Mary
2020 stash: not gonna count, not gonna feel guilty.

Nevis5

Re: Gaping armhole - sleeveless dress
« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2018, 09:21:26 AM »
That fabric is just gorgeous! I bet the dress looks lovely on too.  In this weather I'm not sure I would care too much about the fit, just wear it and be cool.  Must admit I've been living in my sleeveless dresses too, I only usually wear them on holiday but I'm past caring what people think about my arms in 30 degree heat :)  xxx

Vezelay

Re: Gaping armhole - sleeveless dress
« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2018, 09:34:16 AM »
What a lovely dress! I have the same gaping/loose back of armhole problem and have yet to find a solution. But as has been said to me more than once on this forum, you're probably the only one who'll notice. And it's already been admired, so there.