The Sewing Place

FBA again.

wrenkins

FBA again.
« on: August 08, 2018, 18:54:06 PM »
My head's pickled.
I have just followed this Craftsy tute and it doesn't look like the pictures.  :(
For a start the difference between my high bust measurement and my full bust measurement is 10" and my bust apex is 2" lower than the one on the pattern so I'm going to struggle anyway.
I followed all the steps, despite having my apex inside the waist dart (sweet Lord!!!!), but when it came to step 7 I ground to a halt. I cut across from the side seam to somewhere (new bust point???) but this all happened well outside the parameters of the original side dart. Step 7 says "measure the widest point of the cut you made (1&5/8") and use that to decide where the lower dart leg goes". What relevance is that measurement and where do I measure 1&5/8 from? I'm sick of this already...wanders off to find the 'giving up scundered' thread.  :(

ETA The line number 3 they show as up at the top of the dart. Mine is below the bottom of it because of the shift in apex.

« Last Edit: August 08, 2018, 18:55:52 PM by wrenkins »
Harbouring resentment is like swallowing poison and waiting for the other person to die!

Nevis5

Re: FBA again.
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2018, 19:12:35 PM »
@wrenkins I have to make ginormous FBAs in everything I make.  Did you lower the bust dart on the pattern to point at where your own bust point is?  i.e. if it's 2" lower than the bust point on the pattern is, then you need to draw a box  round the entire dart on the pattern, and slide it down to point at where your own bust point would be.  Fill in the rectangle with tissue paper so the pattern doesn't distort.

Then you can carry on with step 7, draw the line as directed to the bp in its new place.  Hope that helps a bit.  Good luck
x

wrenkins

Re: FBA again.
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2018, 19:49:20 PM »
@Francesca I'm using this. I'm hoping to make it for real someday but things aren't looking too positive.
@Nevis5 that would fit perfectly with a doll on Youtube who did one but made no allowance for moving the bust point. She then cut right through the middle of the dart. Her's made more sense to me. I'll try that thanks.

Harbouring resentment is like swallowing poison and waiting for the other person to die!

wrenkins

Re: FBA again.
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2018, 20:03:32 PM »
I nearly snorted my coffee when I saw the title 'big honkin darts'.
In that Craftsy tute it says to go up a 1/4 inch per cup size so if I'm starting with a D cup option I reckoned that my spread should be 2" or thereabouts for HH. If I was using a normal B cup pattern I would need to spread 2&3/4" for the HH.
FYI this is starting to look like a foreign language to me.  :S
Harbouring resentment is like swallowing poison and waiting for the other person to die!

Nevis5

Re: FBA again.
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2018, 20:06:55 PM »
Yes I use that method (the Palmer Pletsch one) for almost all my FBAs too.  Those tutorials are nice and clear, and will hopefully help, @wrenkins .   If you hold the unaltered tissue up to your body (pin the side seams as much as you can, plus the shoulder seams) then if you measure the distance from your bust point to where the centre front of the pattern should go (if you could stretch the tissue that far), then that measurement is the amount you need to widen the bust dart by.   For example I have a HH or I cup size which means that I need to add 6cm to the width of the front piece (on each side, a total of 12 cm) to fit the troublesome ones in. 

The Y FBA doesn't work very well on my particular bod as I have narrow shoulders and chest so I go for the traditional FBA .  I prefer to rotate the bust dart into the armhole as my bust is low and full and I don't end up with pointy darts that way. 

Palmer Pletsch tell you to lower or move the bust dart first, before trying to slash and spread the dart.  I find it quite tricky getting the dart in the right place as I always forget that different fabrics often pull the resulting dart down. 

Good luck! 

wrenkins

Re: FBA again.
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2018, 20:18:11 PM »
I too have puny shoulders so I'll try to master the ordinary one first before I get fancy with the Y business. If it's a fright then I'll try it.
If I can summon the wherewithal I'll have another go later. I have a pattern somewhere with P&P fitting but I don't think it's for wovens. I'll see if I can hunt that out too.  8)
I should have stuck to my poncho which is a blanket with a hole in it and a collar in the hole.  :S
Harbouring resentment is like swallowing poison and waiting for the other person to die!

wrenkins

Re: FBA again.
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2018, 21:47:11 PM »
Well I cut and stuck it all back to the way it was before I started. I even figured out how to make a straight side by folding the dart. A small step. What I can't figure out now is where my "magic moving rectangle" should be and how to place the moved dart to make the side seam straight again.
  /
<
  \
It's like this at the moment. If I move the dart < where do the angles begin and end?
I'm going to bed soon. My mum is staying with me and has offered me a trip to Paris to buy something.  :[ I think she's fed up listening to me rambling.  0_0
Harbouring resentment is like swallowing poison and waiting for the other person to die!

Nevis5

Re: FBA again.
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2018, 07:54:38 AM »
Yep, line up the ends of the printed dart with the lines of the side seams.  Then stick the rectangle down and fill in the empty rectangle above with tissue to keep things neat.  Then draw your lines from the armhole notch to the bust point, and down from there to the bottom of the tissue.  Draw the other line through the middle of the moved dart to your bust point.   

Then cut along the lines as per your instructions, make little hinges at the armhole dart and from the end of the bust dart.  Very gently slide the side seam down and across until the bust point gap measures whatever you want it to. 

Good luck. I hope this is vaguely clear.

wrenkins

Re: FBA again.
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2018, 08:17:26 AM »
It's clear as can be and I've even managed to do it but now the bottom of my dart is 1/2" above the bottom/sewing line of the bodice piece. It looks very odd indeed.  :S
I quickly measured down from mid shoulder point to the bottom of the tissue and the equivalent measurement on me takes me down to my bra underwire. The splitting and spreading only increased the length by about 1/2 - 3/4 of an inch whereas my boobs need a whole lot more fabric to go out and come in again. Presumably I need to lengthen the whole bodice to come even close to my waist. What are the repercussions then for the back bodice? (If I ever get that far I'm taking out all that extra fabric). Just sayin'.

This is the diagram that I followed off Fran's CSC site and as you can see the dart is close to the waistline. Because my bodice stops there it looks really strange. Also the giant dart means that the angles on the side seam are very exaggerated. I can't help thinking that I did all this accurate tracing and now I'm just shifting it all about willy nilly.
I know you're probably bored to tears with this now but if I can hack this it will be life changing and I'm not overstating that. I've never had clothes that fitted unless they were stretchy. I've always worn mens' T shirts and kind of styled it out. Even my wedding "dress" was a clever  top and skirt combo and had to be made.  :(
If I had a fiver for every time my mum said " breast reduction" over the last couple of days I'd be a wealthy woman.  :(


Harbouring resentment is like swallowing poison and waiting for the other person to die!

Nevis5

Re: FBA again.
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2018, 08:56:28 AM »
Aw @wrenkins , I wish I could come and help you with this!  I wouldn't worry about how odd the pattern piece looks, if it fits, that is the main thing (you should see mine after I've rotated darts all round).   Try pinning the dart in and holding it up to yourself.  Is it pointing to the right place?  If so, it doesn't matter where it lies on the bodice. 

You will find that slashing and spreading the dart placement open will mean that the bottom of the bodice is now uneven.  Add tissue to the centre front so that it's even all along.  If you do the pinning of the dart thing and then pin your front piece to your back piece, you should find that it's the same length.  The extra length you see at the moment is the extra dart room you need which will be sewn in.

You will need to correct the new bust dart so that it lies smoothly along the side seam.  To do this, add extra tissue to the ends of the dart, fold the new dart downwards and then trim the ends of the dart even with the side seam. When you unfold it again, hopefully it will either be a v shape or similar.  Again, it doesn't matter what it looks like, it's the fit that you (and I) need.

I'm happy to help if I can but feel frustrated that I can't just come and do it for you!  Good luck x

Nevis5

Re: FBA again.
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2018, 09:00:58 AM »
PS and I absolutely understand how life changing this will be for you.  I'm in exactly the same boat.

I spent hours last week in various shops in town trying on summer dresses for an emergency outing I hadn't planned for.  Every single dress looked ridiculous on me and was tight and unbreathable round the bust.  Went home and whipped up a sundress out of a tried and tested pattern with bust darts included which fitted perfectly (to me).  Once you have the process sorted, it's like magic.    You can do it!! xx

wrenkins

Re: FBA again.
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2018, 09:09:19 AM »
Thanks @Nevis5
My last post sounded really miserable when I read it back just now!!!  :[ I'm not miserable...just ready to punch the pattern in frustration but it's on the kitchen worktop so probably not a good plan.
I tried to tidy it up while I was waiting for my coffee to brew. It was about six layers thick and weighed a kilo due to much taping.  0_0
So anyway I cut the bottom off.  0_0  0_0  0_0
I took a deep breath, a Twirl, a Toffee Crisp and mended it. I now have something that looks like it should though still veh veh short.
I'm taking herself shopping soon so I'll get my head showered...or tortured with other stuff...and return later to do another draft. That should be easy shouldn't it now that I have the bones. Shouldn't it? Shouldn't it??????? :)
Harbouring resentment is like swallowing poison and waiting for the other person to die!

Nevis5

Re: FBA again.
« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2018, 09:14:01 AM »
Not miserable, just frustrated!  It's hard to visualise but it does work.   You can always add to the bodice length if you need it - a pattern is just that, just a template.   No one is going to come knocking at your door demanding you cut the length back off again  :devil:

A chocolate and shopping fix will definitely do the trick  :) x

Ohsewsimple

Re: FBA again.
« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2018, 13:45:35 PM »
@wrenkins can you post a photo of what you've done so far?   There's always a solution.   :). I've taught loads of people to do this and for many it's a real eye opener and lightbulb moment.  Don't expect your pattern to look like the original or even close.  It shouldn't because that one doesn't fit!   I've sometimes moved the darts round the garment.  Sometimes it's better to have more than one dart to cope with a larger bust.  When I was at college my tutor decided three in various places was the best starting point.  :o

Holly Berry

Re: FBA again.
« Reply #14 on: August 09, 2018, 13:58:03 PM »
The best piece of advice I can give you is buy the Palmer Pletsch book Fit for Real People or the new edition The Complete Guide to Fitting. The first I can definitely recommend and you you can see the silly money prices the second hand ones go for. The new one I haven’t read, but is supposed to be a brought up to date version.

I always have to make a FBA and once you’ve mastered the concept you can adjust any pattern, although some do take some figuring out.

The basic principle is to make the fullest part of your bust fit the pattern, the fullest part indicated by the bust point. Most patterns still are drafted for a B cup and a twenty something. I can vaguely remember those days and yes I could sew from an unaltered size 12 Vogue pattern and get the perfect fit.
I am now a 14 back, 16 chest  and FBA to size 18/20

The place to start is with your back, you may find like me my back is narrow in comparison to my front. Get some one to measure your back, side to side. The easiest way to do this is you hold a tape measure around your chest just under your arms, this means that it should be above your breasts, so measures body and not bust. The helper then places another tape measure over the top of the other  and measures back side to side and then your chest side to side. These measurements determine the pattern size to choose.

Now pin the pattern at the shoulders and side seams. No way will this meet down the centre front. Make any adjustments the back my need. ie narrowing the shoulders, sway back, rounded back etc. Let me know if you need help here.
It’s amazing how adjusting the back can have an impact on the front.

Once you’re happy with the back make a note of the adjustments as you will probably need to make these on every future pattern. Re pin and try on, pulling close to your body and measure the gap from the edge of the pattern to your front, this is the amount of the FBA. Note where the fullest part of your bust is in comparison to the pattern. Now measure down from your shoulder where it meets your neck to your bust apex, ie nipple. Wear the bra you are going to wear with the top. I found different bras could make a difference of 2-3 cms in bust apex position. If the difference between you and the pattern is more than 3inches, make the bust apex alteration first, as anything less may be accommodated  in the FBA or may end up being less. I must admit I have only ever done the repositioning down the centre front and not the side seam and done it after the FBA. The exception being a princess seam, but we’ll leave that for now. I draw a rectangle around the bust apex, say 4cm above and below an 2 cm to the left, the move down the required amount.

A dart can basically be anywhere around the edge of a pattern including the centre front if on a seam. If it’s a knit fabric and I don’t want a dart I will quite often split the darts around the side and ease and the bottom edge. Remembering they all have to point and be at least 1 inch from the bust apex. If you imagine icing a domed cake with a sheet of icing, it will fall in folds around the outside, you will then have to cut the fold/folds to allow it to mould around to give a smooth surface, it’s the same with our bodies moulding a flat piece of fabric round our lumps and bumps.

You will also find the curve of the arm syce looks strange. Don’t worry it opens out again when you close the dart.

For narrow shoulders line 1 would be perpendicular to CF or through waist dart if there is one and through bust apex and to the notch on arm syce, basically a third of the way up. Line 2 through the side bust dart to bust apex. Line 3 I usually cut along* the lengthen shorten line. A tip, place a large sheet of cardboard underneath the pattern after cutting but before adjusting and use pins to anchor the cut edges, stops them moving part when you’ve adjusted them. I just find them easier than weights.

After FBA you may also need to adjust the placement of waist dart.

Sorry if I’m teaching my grandmother to suck eggs, but I find a lot of instructions only tell you to make an adjustment on the front and to measure the difference between the chest and bust.

Hope this helps  :D



Procrastination get behind me