Help me solve this fitting issue...

[Kittensposies]

I've just finished a 60s style A-line dress (Tilly and the Buttons 'Francoise' dress), and despite fitting well everywhere else, the dress stands almost 2 inches out from my back. 

I have been through my copy of Fit for Real People and it suggests a round back, but visually it doesn't look like I have that.  Also the same issue arises on my dress form, which I'm fairly sure wouldn't have a round back problem!??

This is the second time I've made this dress and had the same problem both times.  This time the fabric is cotton sateen-ish fabric, and the neckline thing is driving me bonkers.  Help!

(Link is Instagram - sorry for those who can't access it - I can't remember how to get the image code but will try later!)

https://www.instagram.com/p/BTRqj__B5BE/?taken-by=kittensposies

[UttaRetch]

I have managed to extract your image.  Can't help with the fitting problem, though.   Lovely fabric by the way.

[DementedFairy]

Tilly.  Say no more.  Avoid like the plague, there are many more tried-and-tested designers out there...

[Kittensposies]

Thank you!! I couldn't remember how to do it!!

The fabric is a lovely stretch cotton, with floral pattern in dark pinks and dark reds... I bought it about a year ago and knew I wanted to make an a-line dress with it but never got round to it!

I made another version of this dress in suiting fabric but it didn't hold the a-line shape. This one holds the shape but the neck gaping issue is worse because of the stiffness of the fabric

It's almost like I am narrower on the back than on the front? I've read about narrow shoulder adjustments but these seem to be on both sides of the shoulder; this is solely on the back so I don't think it's a shoulder issue.

I did more reading about a round back adjustment but Fit for Real People suggests lengthening the back... this definitely would not help as the fabric would just stand up higher and further away!

There are already back darts so I don't know how I could add more darts without upsetting these (plus the fit is great elsewhere).

If I didn't have a collar on it I could just pinch it in at the zipper, but darn collar scuppered that plan.

Argh. I really wanted this to be wearable :/

[Ohsewsimple]

I'm not sure it's a rounded back problem. Looking at the pattern line drawings there doesn't seem to be a neckline or shoulder dart. Of course, I could be wrong and it could be incorporated into the raglan seaming. However, this may help. 
https://inhousepatterns.com/blogs/news/5931847-fitting-and-pattern-correction-back-neckline-gaping

And a follow on with lots of diagrams. 
https://inhousepatterns.com/blogs/news/6229370-back-contour-shaping

I have found her site really good for fitting info.

[Kittensposies]

Tilly.  Say no more.  Avoid like the plague, there are many more tried-and-tested designers out there...

I am beginning to think that it may be the pattern and not me, but Pattern Review reviews don't seem to mention a similar issue. Then again, there are only 2 reviews!!

I am about to start a Tilly blouse... now very nervous but it's such a nice pattern :/

[Kittensposies]

I'm not sure it's a rounded back problem. Looking at the pattern line drawings there doesn't seem to be a neckline or shoulder dart. Of course, I could be wrong and it could be incorporated into the raglan seaming. However, this may help. 
https://inhousepatterns.com/blogs/news/5931847-fitting-and-pattern-correction-back-neckline-gaping

And a follow on with lots of diagrams. 
https://inhousepatterns.com/blogs/news/6229370-back-contour-shaping

I have found her site really good for fitting info.

This site is amazing!! And that does indeed seem to be the problem!! Now to unpick all the ten million layers at the neckline and test it out Thanks so much!!

[Efemera]

I have this on a lot of patterns... I usually add a neck dart or if there's a CB seam I take the excess out from there.

[Holly Berry]

You may well be two different sizes front and back, I am. I am a size smaller for the back and have to do a FBA on the front. I'm a size 14 back, 16 front (upper chest) and have to do a FBA of 5cm.

Fit for Real people is great for tissue fitting. I've found the best way is to take photos of the tissue on, before alteration and then compare to the pictures in the book. It's difficult to see, especially the back, if you're twisting round to see in a mirror.

Although the book rightly talks about a rounded back causing the neck to stand away, I think in this case it's more a drafting issue. If you want to make again, put 2 small darts in the neck area in the pattern, ie the dart will be in the raglan seam. Just make the seam deeper until the excess fullness is taken up. Don't take in the CB seam as you may well end up with "smiles" across your back. Try it on the pattern before altering the dress, as quite often an alteration in one place will require alteration somewhere else.

[DementedFairy]

*sniff* bloody Tilly

Honest, it's not you.  I've just exercised some Google-fu. and hunted for some posts about this dress which aren't written by fan-girls all posing in nasty twee Tilly-esque ways [hands out like a penguin anyone?  Toes turned in?  Smug little smile?]
Anyway, of the few honest-sounding ones, and the few that show the back neck, they ALL stand away from the body.  It's definitely a pattern drafting issue, the collar is not well shaped, so pushes the bodice away from the body.

Tweak away, but don't blame yourself, and look for anything NOT by Madame Tilly and her crappy buttons for your next make.

Grrrr, cross on your behalf!

[Ohsewsimple]

The problem is that so many of these patterns appeal to and are used by beginners who know no different and wouldn't understand that the neckline shouldn't sit away from the neck.
I couldn't find any good piccies of the back neck myself. But it doesn't look as if it was drafted with a dart. I'd be interested to see what block she uses then!!

[Francesca]

I agree on the crappy Tilly but, in reference to one of the other comments, it is possible to be different sizes front and back.

Most evident when you are full busted, but even so. I recently measured up a friend and indeed she is full busted (G/H) but I was very confused when I compared her measurements to the Cashmerette size guide because they just didn't compute. Remeasuring her and I believe she is very narrow on the back and much fuller on the front (not just breast wise, but frame wise), it is possible.

[Missie]

I'm another that has this problem with most tops/dress patterns, even on the Big 4.  I have to have it taken in at the upper back, not a problem if there is no collar, but tricky when there is (I now always toile a top of any new pattern)  I now go down  size (to a 14) and do an FBA, problem solved :-D

[Kittensposies]

Good morning all!!

Huge thanks for all the help - I am so glad it's not me being a chump. I am fairly irritated at this pattern now. It is going in the "only if you want to punish yourself" pile.

So yesterday I spent probably 4-5 hours working on this. I unpicked the CB, collar and back of the raglan sleeve and tried a few of the suggestions above. The one that worked the best (for "worked the best" read "didn't mean I had to redo the bust darts because they took ages to fix") was just taking it in at the CB. I don't think I'm experienced enough to make all the adjustments this would have needed otherwise!

I've taken 1.5 inches off each side of the collar and 2 inches out of each side of the CB, tapering down to where the original back darts finish, then have lengthened the back darts up a bit and pinched out more fabric to get rid of some poofy-ness at the back shoulder. And then ran out of patience so it's good enough!!

SIGH.

Thank you again for all the help - I'm so grateful!

[UttaRetch]

Well you seemed to have reached an accommodation of sorts, but a lot of patterns including some of the 'big 4' are badly drafted and need extensive re-working.