The Sewing Place

Sewing on modern computerised machines - advice sought

SkoutSews

Sewing on modern computerised machines - advice sought
« on: December 13, 2019, 12:04:23 PM »
All of my sewing has been on mechanical machines.  When I started out, that’s all there was.  I first sewed on my Mum’s Singer 401g, then I was given a machine of my own for my 21st present, a Singer Capri 163.  I had that for decades until I got a Janome Décor Excel II back in 2010.  I had always hankered after another Singer 401g and eventually managed to buy one, so I sold the Capri.

So, now I have the 401g and the Janome, both of which have a very ‘hands-on’, operator-is-in-charge-at-all-times, nothing-happens-unless-you-make-it-happen, style of use.  I am in the habit of cutting and trimming threads at the beginning and end of each seam, easing the flywheel where necessary (particularly on the 401g, both those machines I have used could be reluctant starters – I was told this is due to the direct drive), using the flywheel for needle up/down as required, raising and lowering the presser foot when I want to.  Using reverse stitching, changing stitch width, length or tension with levers or sliders, changing cams for patterns manually, adjusting presser foot pressure, all these are done manually with knobs and levers.  I was even bowled over by the one-step buttonhole foot on the Janome when I got it.  Automation!

From time to time I look at the modern machines and I am beguiled by their bells and whistles, shiny lights and general all-round cleverness.  At the Harrogate show I saw a very quick demo of some of what the Juki DX5 can do. It cuts the threads and fastens off (in a choice of ways) with a nudge of the foot pedal; it can be set to stop sewing with presser foot up, needle up or down;  there are far more stitch patterns and fonts than I will ever use;  a choice of buttonholes in various widths and styles;  stitch patterns can be pre-programmed and stitches selected at the touch of a button etc. etc.  It has a high quality feed mechanism, a slide-adjust straight stitch plate and has a ‘float’ function for thick and tricksy fabrics.  It runs smoothly and quietly and is no doubt an excellent machine.  It is also very expensive.

Now I know very well that a new machine, no matter how clever or pricey, will not turn me into a better sewer.  It’s operator skill that counts.  Boo.  I can’t buy that.

Putting price considerations to one side for now, a major concern is that if I ever bought a modern machine I wouldn’t like not being in charge.  One of these machines would demand a whole new sewing style.  I would need to learn new ways of doing things.  Reliability is also something I worry about.  Simple things can usually be mended if they break.  Computers, not so much. 

I would love to hear your comments and experiences, good or bad, of using these bossy computerised machines of any make or model, not necessarily the Juki.
What adjustments did you have to make to your way of sewing?  Did you find it easy to change the habits of a lifetime?
Is it the case that you can’t turn the flywheel (forwards or backwards) on these machines? If so what happens if you do so out of force of habit?  Do you damage the machine? 
Is there still a manual lever for the presser foot or do you have to rely on the electronics?
I have read that the threads can form a slight nest at the start of a seam, given that you don’t have to hold a few centimetres of thread to the back when starting to sew.  What happens if you pull out a few centimetres of thread?  I do that to knot off the points of darts, for example.  Does that risk damaging the machine?

I won't be at all upset if you put me off, I think that's what I'm looking for in truth....

sewingj

Re: Sewing on modern computerised machines - advice sought
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2019, 12:17:27 PM »
I'll be following this with interest as I also keep wondering if I should go computerized. My biggest concern is how reliable are they and how easy is it to find someone to fix them.
Also, I wonder how quickly I would adapt , as I struggle to understand the TV remote control let alone anything more complicated!

Lilian

Re: Sewing on modern computerised machines - advice sought
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2019, 12:41:04 PM »
I was concerned about buying a computerized machine.  And when I did I only bought a simple one.  I still hold threads or mostly use a piece of fabric as a starter.  It does have a foot lift lever, I think most do anyway. I can still and do, turn the balance wheel. It will stop with needle up or down at my choice. It doesn't have an automatic thread cutter but a cutter on the side although I still use snips to cut thread.  I do pull out as much thread as I want after stopping.  I don't think that would matter.  No ill effect on the machine. Some more highly computerized may be different but I like what I have and it has a good few decorative stitches on it.  All said, I still can't wait to use one of my old singers, especially the hand-crank. Old habits die hard  :) :vintage:  Oh and one thing I do like is the speed limiter :)
« Last Edit: December 13, 2019, 13:00:33 PM by Lilian »
Willing but not always able :)

Helen M

Re: Sewing on modern computerised machines - advice sought
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2019, 19:45:06 PM »
Well you did ask so I'll tell you what I found...... I bought the Janome DKS 100 and hate it, so much that it has sat in the cupboard for at least 3 years.

If you stop sewing half way through a garment or whatever and switch off the power any changes to the 'standard' settings ie stitch length, width or anything else will have been lost and you have to remember what you had changed..... That really annoyed me.

My Janome 4618 is just about the same as your Janome so I think I know where you are coming from, and I think changed for similar reasons too. I'm sure there are other things but for now I can't recall them.

Be wary!! If my mechanical gave up the ghost I'd search the earth to replace it!
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Ploshkin

Re: Sewing on modern computerised machines - advice sought
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2019, 19:55:42 PM »
With my Pfaff I can choose whether or not to activate the needle up / down, the thread cutter, the tie off, the auto foot lift etc.  I never use the auto cutter because I don't like the threads being cut off under the needle plate and the resulting knotty bit when you start off again.  I pull the fabric out and leave thread tails just as I have always done.  Although things like tension and foot pressure are set automatically for each stitch it is easy to change them.  I am unlikely to ever use most of the stitches  but they're on most machines these days anyway.  I am boss over the handwheel and have never damaged anything by turning it by hand. I can choose whether or not to use the stop start button or foot pedal and the knee lift.  In fact I feel I have as much control over my machine as with a non computerised one.
My only gripes particular to my machine are that there is no 4 step or manual buttonhole option and the speed limiter range is nowhere near as broad as on my previous one.
Although the machine has a great many auto functions I can choose whether or not I wish to use them.  Some I like, some I don't.  And in answer to your question - no, I have not had to change the way I sew.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2019, 19:57:17 PM by Ploshkin »
Life's too short for ironing.

Radiofan

Re: Sewing on modern computerised machines - advice sought
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2019, 10:31:00 AM »
I suppose it is a bit like driving fancy new cars. You can choose to use the cruise control or the keep-in-lane function or the automatic wipers, or not. There is more to learn initially, but the features bring some convenience.

I am happy with my basic manual and electric machines, they will do everything I need them to do. Going computerized does not bring a return on investment.

If you are getting an itch to buy new gear, maybe you should look at an overlocker or coverstitcher, they can do things the humble sewing machine can't. My overlocker saves me a lot of time.
Singer 538, there are many like it, but this one is mine.

SkoutSews

Re: Sewing on modern computerised machines - advice sought
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2019, 11:45:12 AM »
Thank you all for taking the time to give your interesting and varied replies.  You’ve given me three very different experiences to think about.

Oh dear @Helen M  you really haven’t bonded with that machine at all, have you?  This is one of my concerns.  I would hate to get a new machine home and eventually find that I was happier with my old one and your mechanical Janome 4618 is indeed very similar to my model.  You mention the fact that the new machine loses the stitch settings every time it is switched off.  That would drive me nuts too and will be on any list of questions that I shall take with me if I decide to go and look at machines in the flesh.  I think that the ones I have been looking at can save stitch patterns in memory, but it helps to know that this is something to check.  Thank you for your frank account.

@Lilian  yours is a more ‘middle of the road’ experience.  I’m interested that you find the machine easy to use and that you still use it just like your mechanical.  I’m not sure if I could get into the habit of using leaders when starting every seam.  Is that more of a P&Q thing?

@Ploshkin  yours is the most positive response and you obviously really like your Pfaff and bend it to your will!  You get round the auto-cutter nesting issue by turning the darn thing off and doing things your own way and it’s good to know that is an option. It’s good to know that you boss the machine and not the other way about and that your sewing style remains unchanged.  I always used to do manual buttonholes by measuring and marking, then doing a combination of narrow zigzag, pivot, wide zigzag, narrow, wide and then a lockstitch.  Phew, no wonder I love my one-step buttonhole foot.  Often my buttonholes used to come out banana-shaped.  A 4-step buttonhole is unknown to me.

@Radiofan thank you for your input.  I largely agree with all you say.  I already have an overlocker and a coverstitch, so I'm fortunate to be well set up as things are.  There's no pressure for a change, just as you say, it's like looking at shiny new cars in a showroom!

I’m pleased to hear generally that my worries about possibly causing damage to the machine by persisting in my old habits are unfounded and the machines can be controlled and bossed around in the usual manner.  I would love the choice of buttonholes and availability of alphabet fonts.  The huge number of decorative stitches is probably not something I’d use so much, but as I read elsewhere, once a machine is designed to as certain level the addition of extra stitch patterns becomes a matter of pence on the final cost, so of course the manufacturers add them to the spec.

This is going to be a slow-burner for me.  I’m not going to rush into a decision.  I had thought that I might trade in my Janome, keeping the 401g as my mechanical back-up.  After your warnings @helenm I might hang on to the Janome and sell on Gumtree if and when I’m ready.  The Juki DX5 is the current eye-candy and I also have looked at the Janome 6700p, but that is a bigger machine and more money.  The nearest dealer with both Janome and Juki machines is 90 minutes’ drive away so this would be a full day’s expedition, for after the holidays, armed with my list of questions and fabric offcuts. 

I suspect that it might be like going to view puppies.  You never come home without one.

Holly Berry

Re: Sewing on modern computerised machines - advice sought
« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2019, 12:30:57 PM »
I inherited my Mum’s Husqvarna #1 which was one of the first all bells and whistles computerised machines of the early 90s.

It has something called Sewing Advisor, where you tell it what you want to sew eg lightweight jersey and it will set tension, foot pressure stitch length and even tell you which foot you need. You do have the option of overriding if you want.

I loved this machine so much that I bought the Husqvarna Sapphire. I love the auto cut, although I still, on seams, don’t use it very often, only through habit. I also love the fix at the beginning and end, up down needle and that the foot lifts with a tap on the foot pedal.

However the overriding positive about my manual Singers is the quality of the straight stitch and button hole attachment, my modern computerised stitch isn’t as good. However, the Husqvarna is so easy to use I rarely get the Singer out unless I’m sewing upholstery.

The other downside is maintenance. I can strip my Singers down and do all the maintenance myself, but the computerised ones have to go a service engineer, although I do clean it after every use.

My verdict, the computerised one are so much more versatile, maybe need more reading of the manual and practice to get the best out of them.
Procrastination get behind me

Ploshkin

Re: Sewing on modern computerised machines - advice sought
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2019, 12:50:10 PM »
Quote
I suspect that it might be like going to view puppies.  You never come home without one.
I didn't even go to look.  I took my previous machine in because the timing was out but on the way it must have recovered when I bounced over the road humps on the way into town because there was nothing wrong with it when I got there.   So I just had a chat with the man and ended up coming home with a new machine.  I left the other one there in part exchange.
Life's too short for ironing.

SkoutSews

Re: Sewing on modern computerised machines - advice sought
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2019, 13:11:06 PM »
Ha! Risky business, visiting machine showrooms!

Sara-S

Re: Sewing on modern computerised machines - advice sought
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2019, 13:12:56 PM »
My Singer is mechanical and my Brother is computerized. I like the “idiot-proofing”. For instance, it will not start sewing unless the presser foot is already down. (I’ve made that mistake with other machines numerous times and can’t make it with this one.)

It has more stitches than I will use, but that also means it has a lot of stitches I do use.  Because of that, I have expanded my sewing skills to make use of the added choices. 

My machine will also do some basic lettering, which I have made use of, in making some gifts.

So I can’t tell you if you will like a computerized machine, but I can say that I love mine.
You can't scare me. I taught high school for 32 years.

Lilian

Re: Sewing on modern computerised machines - advice sought
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2019, 13:28:11 PM »

@Lilian  yours is a more ‘middle of the road’ experience.  I’m interested that you find the machine easy to use and that you still use it just like your mechanical.  I’m not sure if I could get into the habit of using leaders when starting every seam.  Is that more of a P&Q thing?




I’m pleased to hear generally that my worries about possibly causing damage to the machine by persisting in my old habits are unfounded and the machines can be controlled and bossed around in the usual manner.  I would love the choice of buttonholes and availability of alphabet fonts.  The huge number of decorative stitches is probably not something I’d use so much, but as I read elsewhere, once a machine is designed to as certain level the addition of extra stitch patterns becomes a matter of pence on the final cost, so of course the manufacturers add them to the spec.

This is going to be a slow-burner for me.  I’m not going to rush into a decision.  I had thought that I might trade in my Janome, keeping the 401g as my mechanical back-up.  After your warnings @helenm I might hang on to the Janome and sell on Gumtree if and when I’m ready.  The Juki DX5 is the current eye-candy and I also have looked at the Janome 6700p, but that is a bigger machine and more money.  The nearest dealer with both Janome and Juki machines is 90 minutes’ drive away so this would be a full day’s expedition, for after the holidays, armed with my list of questions and fabric offcuts. 

I suspect that it might be like going to view puppies.  You never come home without one.

@SkoutSews Yes the starter is for P&Q I don't use one for dressmaking.  You have got me watching a video of the Juki you mentioned!  :sew: :ninja:  :)
Willing but not always able :)

HenriettaMaria

Re: Sewing on modern computerised machines - advice sought
« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2019, 15:05:47 PM »
Advantages - automatic buttonholes; bobbin winding (no need to disengage drive manually); incremental positioning of needle (rather than left, centre, right that my old Singer has); extended range of utility stitches such as stretch; option to sew without the foot control engaged (vital for auto buttonholes, I find); warnings when you try to do something stupid like forget to engage the presser foot; integrated needle-threader (nothing to do with computers but a really useful option)

Disadvantages - the fact that it doesn't remember settings when switched off and reverts to default when powered on again.  Mine is now about 20 years old (and more electronic than full-on USB/Bluetooth-enabled) so this might not now be the case - flash memory might have overcome this but it's worth investigating before you buy; precision straight line sewing is, on mine, at least, harder work than on the old Singer - again, worth checking when you test drive before you buy

Neither here nor there - lots of fancy-dan stitches that never get used

Helen M

Re: Sewing on modern computerised machines - advice sought
« Reply #13 on: December 14, 2019, 15:08:18 PM »
@SkoutSews I did find the machine easy to use. I didn't use the fancy stitches and it does set tensions etc automatically, but I'm afraid I like to slightly alter them (not just for the sake of it!) as I often find a better result, even with the 4618, with a slight alteration. Computers aren't always 100% right are they?......... I think I just liked the old one better when it came down to it and like you have overlocker and coverstitch. Some machines have memory for patterns etc but they often don't memorise the basics that you use everyday.

Definitely keep your old one as I think they sew heavier fabrics better than the computerised ones whatever the manufacturers tell you.
Stash Busting 2024 - Goal: 25 metres
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coffeeandcake

Re: Sewing on modern computerised machines - advice sought
« Reply #14 on: December 14, 2019, 17:49:41 PM »
I think @Ploshkin and I have the same Pfaff model (QE4.2).  I agree with all that she says regarding choosing whether to use the various functions, or not.  I frequently manually turn the balance wheel with no adverse effects too.  I like the auto cutter and don't have any nesting issues after using it.  It does have several buttonhole functions and an electronic buttonhole foot, which is useful.  However, I do sometimes miss the four step buttonhole function of my old mechanical machine.  It doesn't have a lever to manually operate the presser foot and that took a little while to get used to but I really like it now.