Sewing on modern computerised machines - advice sought

[Ploshkin]

You remember correctly @coffeeandcake I also found the absence of a presser foot lever odd to start but I am a huge fan of the knee lift now and also the automatic foot lifting whenever you stop (just a fraction and you can opt out) which allows you to reposition fabric - very useful for fiddly sewing.
When I used my mum's fairly basic Janine recently I felt completely cac-handed and was fumbling around for the presser foot lever all the time.

[Goth Gardiner]

I love my computerised 5-year old computerised Janome.

When turned on its settings are as I left them (actually as I last sewed, rather than as I last set them if you get my gist).
I can set it to a combination of starting and finishing; just a straight stitch; a straight stitch with a "fastening" stitch, or a straight stitch with a reverse backwards and forwards; and then do these with an automatically cut off. 

Then, with a press of a button, set it to finish stitching either with the needle up or down.  Or do a single stitch by pressing a button rather than using the hand wheel.

The default stitches can be altered and saved.

I can set the speed limiter and start stitching without using my dodgy hip on the pedal.

I can change feet just by pressing them on and off.

It takes all the physical effort and thought out of sewing.  I know you're thinking that sewing isn't physical, but when I go back to a manual machine I struggle after 10 minutes. 

It is quicker and easier and I'm never going back to a non-computerised machine.

[SkoutSews]

Very interesting @Goth Gardiner

What model of Janome do you have?

[Marniesews]

Have you seen my comments about this in another post @SkoutSews ?

It wasn't really the computerisation versus mechanical that I didn't like, it's when it's so heavily featured that it starts to feel like a barrier between me and the machine. After all my favourite Bernina 1130 is computerised so I'm no Luddite but it is one of their early models from 1990. There are some specific things that I don't like about the big beasts though.

The lack of presser foot lever - I've trapped my finger tips a few times with wriggly fabrics at tricky points. I didn't get to grips with the knee lift until ironically I became a convert with the Bernina's knee lift, then when I eventually found my big Pfaff's mislaid knee lift a few months ago the function no longer worked! I badly need to get the machine served as this presser foot issue is a big negative for me.

The big brute is slower to use for everyday sewing. It has some push buttons but not for the majority of settings (incl. stitch and length/width) which require a journey through the touch screen menus some of which are many and nested so when you've made your selection and want to make a quick change... Perhaps some recent models may have addressed this.

Yes you can certainly use the hand wheel and I always choose to bring the thread up before setting off - I like to tie off at both ends too. I didn't have bird's nests with either method though. I don't generally use the auto tie-off function either so I can unpick and hand stitch with the thread end if I've not stopped at the perfect point too.

The stitch quality of the Berninas is renowned of course but those old dears aren't perfect in all things. I use a walking foot all the time with them for lycra (no presser foot pressure control on these models) while the Pfaff's IDT feed is just wonderful for lycra and shifty fabrics. You can get this on the majority of Pfaff machines (I have one of their cheaper lightweight mechanicals with IDT) but I believe you have to spend far more with other makes to get a similar dual feed system. This way of ordering the features of the model ranges and the rising price points is a bug bear for me.

I miss the metal bodies too. The Berninas are aluminium but do have bits of plastic, the rear panel for example, but it's all pervading in new machines. That makes it lighter I suppose for those big machines that already weigh a ton but the smaller ones can feel flimsy to me.

Easy to be wise in retrospect of course and hopefully one day I'll find something I really want to do that the big Pfaff does better than any of the others. I could sell it but it's devalued enormously over the last 5 years (they reduced the new price only a year or two after I bought it) and I've now got the servicing cost to add. 

Enjoy trying a wide range of what's available and take your time.

[Goth Gardiner]

@SkoutSews
It is a memorycraft 6600.

[HenriettaMaria]

About the plastic vs metal in machines, it's not the bodywork that's the issue but the chassis/frame on which the machine is built.  If the G-shaped components between the feed dogs, up through the right-hand pillar, across the top and down to the needle is capable of flexing then the machine won't work well.  Cheapish machines have nylon chassis, which is why they're neither use nor ornament.  I have this on good authority from the man at the Brother stand at K&S Ally Pally, and he should know!

Plastic body shells don't affect performance because they're not structural.  BUT, and it's a big but, you must NEVER leave them for prolonged periods in direct sunlight otherwise they will be come brittle and eventually snap or crack. I've had that happen with the spool pin of mine, which sits directly below the aperture where the carry handle passes through the hard case to the outside.  I now store the pressing cloth over that to keep the light out completely.

[Ploshkin]

That is a very good point about the ease of accessing settings in the menus.  With my previous Pfaff (Ambition) I didn't find it intuitive at all and there were different things to press for different settings.  The menu on the Pfaff Expression is very simple - everything is accessed by the settings button and  the 4 way arrows.  I do wish though that the speed had been left as a slider switch on the front of the machine.  I haven't had to look in the manual for anything whereas I always seemed to have the manual out with the other machine.

[Helen M]

About the plastic vs metal in machines, it's not the bodywork that's the issue but the chassis/frame on which the machine is built.  If the G-shaped components between the feed dogs, up through the right-hand pillar, across the top and down to the needle is capable of flexing then the machine won't work well.  Cheapish machines have nylon chassis, which is why they're neither use nor ornament.  I have this on good authority from the man at the Brother stand at K&S Ally Pally, and he should know!

Plastic body shells don't affect performance because they're not structural.  BUT, and it's a big but, you must NEVER leave them for prolonged periods in direct sunlight otherwise they will be come brittle and eventually snap or crack. I've had that happen with the spool pin of mine, which sits directly below the aperture where the carry handle passes through the hard case to the outside.  I now store the pressing cloth over that to keep the light out completely.

Not sure about the chassis of the computerised one I don't like or use, but the model that @SkoutSews and I have has a metal chassis. I think that is another reason why my ancient (1989) Brother 730D 3 thread overlock which I actually think was made by Viking Husqvarna (seen identical model in US with Husky badge) sounds and usually performs better than the Brother 2104 4 thread I bought as a back up a couple of years ago. The old one's chassis is metal.

[Holly Berry]

Not sure about the chassis of the computerised one I don't like or use, but the model that @SkoutSews and I have has a metal chassis. I think that is another reason why my ancient (1989) Brother 730D 3 thread overlock which I actually think was made by Viking Husqvarna (seen identical model in US with Husky badge) sounds and usually performs better than the Brother 2104 4 thread I bought as a back up a couple of years ago. The old one's chassis is metal.

I believe it was the other way round, that Brother made the Huskylock. When the blades went on mine a few years back, the service engineer told me the machines were made by Brother and parts were interchangeable. Somebody else makes the Huskylock now.

[WendyW]

My first computerized machine was a Pfaff 1467. It only controlled certain functions- all related to stitch size and type. It had a manual foot lever, and manual release to wind bobbins. A couple years ago I replaced it with a Pfaff QE 4.2, which is fully computerized. It took a long time to get used to, and there are some features I wish I could change. Like you are concerned about, it acted like it was smarter than me, and I didn't like feeling like I had to argue with it. For many of the issues, I just had to learn the nuances of it's programming and how to work around it. I really did NOT like going to one with so much control, but the QE has a HUGE harp space, and I really wanted that!

My machine has button controls, with only a small screen to show what stitch is being used, and to explain warnings if needed. I have used machines with a touch screen for controls and found it really annoying. Too many levels of menu to find my way through, and too much having to back out of one menu and try another while searching for the right settings.

What adjustments did you have to make to your way of sewing?  Did you find it easy to change the habits of a lifetime?
Hardest change was to stop reaching for the foot lever! Now when I use someone else's machine, I keep reaching for the button instead.  I've had to create a few new habits to work with the particular traits of this machine.
 
Is it the case that you can’t turn the flywheel (forwards or backwards) on these machines? If so what happens if you do so out of force of habit?  Do you damage the machine?
I frequently use the flywheel on mine, and I was never warned otherwise.

Is there still a manual lever for the presser foot or do you have to rely on the electronics?
No manual lever, and sometimes I really wish there was.

I have read that the threads can form a slight nest at the start of a seam, given that you don’t have to hold a few centimetres of thread to the back when starting to sew.  What happens if you pull out a few centimetres of thread?  I do that to knot off the points of darts, for example.  Does that risk damaging the machine?
When I bought mine I specifically asked if it would make a nest and was told no. It does. I quit using the automatic thread cutting, so I still have long threads to hold. It DOES complain if I hold them tightly and I need to ask my repair shop if this is a problem.

Things I really like-
*The  needle up/down setting- for this reason alone I would not go back to a full manual machine.
*The partial automatic foot lift when the needle setting is down- this lets you turn a corner without messing with the foot.

Things I really dislike-
*Auto tie-off and thread cut- there are times when it's a really nice feature to have, like in the middle of a large project when you would otherwise have looong tails just from moving the fabric away. For regular use, the cutting creates a lot of lint in the bobbin area, and the tie-off is SLOW. I can back-and-forth with the reverse button much faster. But it IS hands-off, so sometimes it's nice to let the machine handle that while I'm already grabbing the next pieces to sew.
*Very little hand space around the needle. Presumably to accommodate all the automatic stuff, the machine is very bulky around the needle area. You have to use a small tool to hold the needle while inserting it because there is not enough room there for hands to work well. Ditto for the needle screw- have to use a screwdriver because there is not enough finger room. A couple years ago I had reason to use my mom's machine- a 60's Singer that I learned on- and I LOOOVED the space it had.

I really wish you could custom order a machine- "I want this chassis for the harp size, and I want this feature, and that feature, but do NOT put THAT on there!"

[SkoutSews]

You’ve given me even more interesting and considered responses, thank you all for taking the time to post. 

@Goth Gardiner I’m interested that you love the 6600p as the 6700p is on my watchlist.  You have found it very controllable and user-friendly
@Helen M  Yes, our Janome machines have a sturdy metal chassis.  At the time I bought that machine my rationale was to go for a good mechanical model as my budget allowed for that, but would have only just edged into the cheaper end of the computerised range.
@Marniesews Your assessment of the many automatic functions becoming a barrier to sewing was insightful.  You expressed my vaguer ideas of loss of control and change of sewing style in more precise terms.   I searched for your earlier post without success and if you have time to provide a link, I’d love to read it.
@WendyW another Pfaff 4.2, obviously a popular machine, and another full response.  Yet you have trouble with the auto tie-off and nesting too.

I’ve attempted to compile an overview.  Some people’s ‘pros’ are others’ ‘cons’ so it’s not straightforward!

Pros: 
1.   Ease of use, particularly auto functions such as foot lift; idiot-proofing e.g. prevention of trying to sew without presser foot down
2.   Auto lockstitch, cutting, presser foot lift, needle up/down
3.   Speed control, both by foot pedal and touch control for buttonholes etc.
4.   Available fonts, stitches, buttonhole types and sizes
5.   On some machines – save settings from last use in addition to saving frequently used settings and pattern combinations
6.   Some machines have IDT, walking foot or similar feed system
7.   Button or slider controls for frequently used functions are easier than trawling through menus

Cons: 
1.   Servicing costs and depreciation on high upfront price; jump in price point when extra features added
2.   Long term viability poor compared with sturdy, all-metal mechanical machine
3.   On some machines -difficulties of accessing menus to make simple changes, particularly touchscreens with many menu levels
4.   On some machines - loss of last-used settings when switching off machine
5.   On some machines – autocutting causes nesting
6.   Lack of space around the needle bar and throat plate – that’s an interesting one
7.   Too much tech automation can result in barrier between machine and operator
8.   Auto functions, e.g. tension, can be fiddly to fine-tune to operator preference

My original post raised questions of function which you have all laid to rest. The flywheel can be turned, the threads can be drawn out, just as I do now, without dire consequences for the machine.  Your responses have highlighted that it is important to find a machine that can be bent to your will.  Starting with a machine that allows the operator to adjust the auto-settings and save those preferences is important.  There is a suggestion coming through in the replies that the newer machines do allow more operator control and adjustment.  I’d probably want a presser foot lever.  I winced at @Marniesews trapped fingers!  I bet once I had adjusted to a new machine, I wouldn’t use that lever much, but it’s good to have the option. 

After I’d drafted up my original post, I read it through and wasn’t going to go ahead and post on TSP.  I felt that ordering my thoughts and putting them down in writing had provided me with my answer.  I’m lucky to have what I’ve got, a range of good, sturdy mechanical machines that do the job.  The 401g in particular will probably survive the apocalypse (provided the motor lasts, I hear replacements are no longer available – though without electricity I’d have to convert to treadle or hand crank in any case).  I’m very pleased that I did go ahead as the responses have been so helpful and wide-ranging and have opened up my decision-making process considerably. 

New shiny things are always attractive, carry a price premium and are unlikely to be a sound investment longer term.  @Radiofan expressed this well.  Yet if you take pleasure in an activity that you enjoy, what’s wrong in furthering that sometimes without looking to the strict view?  All within reason and resources, naturally, but in enjoying our chosen leisure activities from time to time we all spend on things that we know to be a depreciating asset.  To quote a friend, “There are no pockets in a shroud”.

As many of you counselled, I shall take my time to decide which way to go and compare some machines, armed with the extra insight you have provided.

Please continue to add any other points that come to mind.

[Radiofan]

I have many hobbies and have spent a great deal of money on some of them. It's your money and your pleasure, we are just offering our points of view. I do not do enough sewing to justify it.

BTW, some of the more expensive machines have metal frames and are made quite sturdy. So is the cost, but if you want the Rolls, go for it. I don't know the makes/models well enough, but I'm sure there are plenty of opinions on this forum. I recall looking at YouTube videos and people really liking the Berninas.

[Goth Gardiner]

@SkoutSews  i haven't ever thought about 1 and 2 (I bought the machine with a bonus and she has yet to need servicing). The other things haven't been an issue, although I suspect that my machine has more manual features than the new ones today as I have to lift up my presser foot and set my tension manually.

[Marniesews]

@Marniesews  I searched for your earlier post without success and if you have time to provide a link, I’d love to read it.

Oops! I can't find it myself now. It was a week or two ago and now I'm thinking it must have been on one of the other online sites that I use...but I've no idea which now! 

Another solution to avoid the trapped fingers of course is to use an awl for more precise positioning but I don't always have one at hand and then think 'I can do this'. 

[Tigerpit]

I have a Janome MC6700P and could not imagine life without it and all its computerised functions. I trained on industrial machines at fashion college and sewed at home on an ancient Necchi Lycia until the mid 2000's. I bought myself a Brother NX600 and whilst the computer aided functions were fun, the machine itself was just too lightweight and a little unpredictable after I hit a pin and knocked out the timing a little. That meant a full service was required, which did fix the problem but highlighted that over-complicating things sometimes means a tiny mistake has much bigger ramifications. When I had this machine, I did still have to use my Lycia for heavy, dense wools and thick fabrics, as the Brother just was not up to the job, alas. It didn't have the "puncture power" of the Lycia, nor the weight to battle against a coat or wedding gown's drag.

I bought myself the 6700P after my mother died and I had a little inheritance to spend, and I cannot explain how much I love this machine. It's the best of both worlds for me. I love the blend of mechanical robustness with computer wizardry that this machine has. I DO use a good number of the stitches regularly, but it does have a lot and I can't imagine ever using them all. I love that I have the option to adjust all the settings for a stitch, and can memorize them if I need to. This means that I can easily keep settings stored when a project is worked on over several days, saving me extra thinking time. I appreciate everything about this machine and whilst it was a big investment, it's not one I think I will ever regret.