The Sewing Place

Patternschool is back!

Marniesews

Patternschool is back!
« on: April 27, 2020, 17:17:17 PM »
 :D   :D  :D

Yes, the new Pattern School is back online! It's new title is Pattern Designing for Stretch Textiles and he's also just started a Facebook page which may be a good addition for those who use it.
Hopefully back more regularly! Ballroom sewing may be permanently paused but bag making is the current focus.

Sewingforfun

Re: Patternschool is back!
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2020, 09:38:53 AM »
Fantastic news, but.... be very, very careful using the basic block instructions!! (rant alert, but I spent a lot of time agonising over why it didn't fit when I first started making stretch dresses, and finally came to the conclusion it was him, not me.) The rest of it is really good, though, if a bit fiddly sometimes.

The swimsuit basic block still has the same errors that plagued the previous block. In particular, in Step 2, 9-16 is not (necessarily) 9.5cm, it should be ½ the gusset for custom measurements. 9.5cm is ½ the gusset based on his size 10, who has a distinctly pert bottom and so a high-positioned full hip, and therefore a very long gusset. Similarly, in Step 1, 3-5, and the matching 16-17 is also not necessarily 7cm unless you have said pert bottom and very long gusset.

This was worse when he also had the leotard pattern, as he had you square across 9cm for 3-5 and 16-17. Basically it made a gigantic lycra diaper cover! Here is a comparison I did of his pattern with a bunch of others from books by Helen Joseph-Armstrong, Ann Haggar, Keith Richardson and Kristina Shin, all using my measurements.  The PatternSchool one is in red, and as you can see is both longer and wider than the others, although it is a very similar shape to the Joseph-Armstrong one.

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And here is what I took off to make it actually fit me!
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Now that he's back, I will email him and see if I can get him to update it, but previously he was very sniffy about "hobbyists" and their problems, so we'll see.
Dancing too much and trying to remember sewing is for fun! Used to be CarolC.

Marniesews

Re: Patternschool is back!
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2020, 23:34:16 PM »
That is interesting to see and useful to know! Thank you @Sewingforfun:)

I have a master pattern that I drafted for the DGD (using Julie Coles' book) about 2 years ago but I fear Christmas, her birthday and lockdown following one after the other has changed her shape a little recently. I'm sure she'll be doing her best to get back there quickly once the dance school reopens and they've all a bit more room to roam and be more active but, if needed, I'll probably use one of my Jalie patterns and add an FBA for more room and an enhanced shape by keeping the dart.

I did think his patterns would be really useful looking for new styling ideas to see how he adapts the basic block to achieve them.
Hopefully back more regularly! Ballroom sewing may be permanently paused but bag making is the current focus.

Sewingforfun

Re: Patternschool is back!
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2020, 13:09:33 PM »
So, this is what he wrote about me on his FB page after I asked about the block.... I actually got a much politer email response, and have replied equally politely including with detailed measurements. It does rather suggest he hasn't changed much!


"The third that said the opposite of the first ... that the top was perfect but the bottoms were really baggy and that my patterns should match in gusset length front to back like everyone else's do, therefore presuming I was wrong for being different.I prefer the crotch seam to stay relatively fixed and vary back length because it looks better on the body commercially .... much much better. In the example she sent her pattern looked like it had a boy leg which is nothing close to how it should look if she followed my instructions. Instead of sending me her measurements so I could see if there was a mistake in interpretation, an error in my instructions or perhaps they even needed to be clearer, she told me how to correct my methods and change my commercial teaching numbers so that it might copy other made to measure systems that work better for her specific figure .... the complaint also seems to be that I'm working up and down from a Size 10 (as required) and not good for made to measure ..... which is what I repeatedly say the site is about.

I took my site offline 10 years ago because some made to measure people didn't comprehend the sites intention was to teach commercial fashion systems to students and this meant they could say bad things and criticize a well established commercial system because it didn't suit them personally. They didn't care whether that was the intention or that it was even offered for free to students or that I was happy to try and help if there was a problem. All they wanted to do was criticize something that didn't work the way they wanted it to. And if I did eventually give up trying to help and again explain why I did it this way I was apparently being flippant or something similar and critical of home sewists. Not fair.
The first thing these same people did when I closed the site was say how much they missed it. Oh really?
I'd forgotten about these people and actually missed teaching and was happy to put it back up again ... but in less than a week online those very same type of people (one was actually the same person) were straight back to questioning why the methods didn't work as well for their specific made to measure figure.
OK Rant over ... going to go have a coffee and decide whether or not I even bother continuing answering messages .... so disappointed :(
- end quote
Dancing too much and trying to remember sewing is for fun! Used to be CarolC.

Missie

Re: Patternschool is back!
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2020, 13:58:48 PM »
Fantastic news, but.... be very, very careful using the basic block instructions!! (rant alert, but I spent a lot of time agonising over why it didn't fit when I first started making stretch dresses, and finally came to the conclusion it was him, not me.) The rest of it is really good, though, if a bit fiddly sometimes.

The swimsuit basic block still has the same errors that plagued the previous block. In particular, in Step 2, 9-16 is not (necessarily) 9.5cm, it should be ½ the gusset for custom measurements. 9.5cm is ½ the gusset based on his size 10, who has a distinctly pert bottom and so a high-positioned full hip, and therefore a very long gusset. Similarly, in Step 1, 3-5, and the matching 16-17 is also not necessarily 7cm unless you have said pert bottom and very long gusset.

This was worse when he also had the leotard pattern, as he had you square across 9cm for 3-5 and 16-17. Basically it made a gigantic lycra diaper cover! Here is a comparison I did of his pattern with a bunch of others from books by Helen Joseph-Armstrong, Ann Haggar, Keith Richardson and Kristina Shin, all using my measurements.  The PatternSchool one is in red, and as you can see is both longer and wider than the others, although it is a very similar shape to the Joseph-Armstrong one.

  [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]  

And here is what I took off to make it actually fit me!
  [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]  

Now that he's back, I will email him and see if I can get him to update it, but previously he was very sniffy about "hobbyists" and their problems, so we'll see.

But surely, it is the same as any other pattern, that it will take some tweaks to fit you and therefore it is not the fault of the pattern as this is just the starting point?

Sewingforfun

Re: Patternschool is back!
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2020, 06:34:02 AM »
But surely, it is the same as any other pattern, that it will take some tweaks to fit you and therefore it is not the fault of the pattern as this is just the starting point?

@Missie - yes, that’s always true, but I think in this case it’s actually worse than that and the directions are genuinely wrong. If you look at my first picture, which shows my experiment using the same measurements for different books, the other four are all within a reasonable tolerance. Not the same, but definitely similar. The one in blue, from Ann Haggar's Pattern Cutting for Lingerie book is a bit longer, but still the same size as the others if you aligned the crotches.

In particular they are all agreed that the area where the crotch goes under the body should be around 7-9 cm *finished* width (pattern width 4-4.5cm) for a finished length of somewhere between 8-12cm, when gently widening out at the back.

For the front gusset, he starts on the front crotch line at 4cm (8cm finished, much like everyone else). Then for the leotard, the front part of the gusset goes out to 9.5cm pattern (19cm finished) where the front and back parts of the gusset join. That's much wider than the others. The swimsuit is slightly narrower at 7cm in the same place, but at 14cm finished still considerably wider than the others in the same place at the lowest point on the body.

This is compounded by the front half gusset measurement. The gusset is explained as a custom length (½ waist-waist minus crotch depth), and you use ½ gusset for the back. In the front, however, the corresponding measurement is a fixed 9.5. My personal ½ gusset is only 6.5, so using 9.5 adds 3cm at the front to the overall length. It needs to be one or the other - personal, or fixed, not both.

The way the back is drafted, the balk half gusset continues to get wider as it goes up, broadening out to 3/16th hip (⅛ hip for the swimsuit) at the back crotch line (that's 17.5 for me, finished 36cm). Even allowing for the bum to pull the back crotch line up, that's a heck of a lot of fabric very low down. Plus it's 3cm too long in the crotch because of the fixed 9.5 length so it has no negative ease anymore.

I made three changes:
-- used my personal front crotch length
-- treated the specified 9.5 width on the half crotch line as a finished measurement (using 4.25 for the pattern on the half gusset line)
--  put the 3/16th hip on the hipline not the back crotchline

Everything else I did the same. It’s now a much better fit and a normal shape (see photo below). It is also within the tolerances of the others - not the same, but not wildly different.

So yes, I do think it’s the pattern not me. As I said at the beginning, it may be OK is you are his size 10 (a UK 4ish) and have the body of a swimsuit model with a great big perky bum to haul up all that extra fabric, but be very very careful if you are using it to make a basic block for an ordinary person.

And it's not only me - when the original site was up 10 years ago, there were a number of "hobbyists" who wrote in or posted blogs showing simialr problems around the back crotch and seat. Like me, they got dismissive replies that it must be their errors because they weren't fashion students. Most of the blogs have gone, but I found this (scroll down a bit to see the right part). She used the swimsuit (and is quite skinny), but had exactly the same problem as me with a very baggy bum, and she also made exactly the same changes cutting back the crotch and lifting the leg line.

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« Last Edit: May 06, 2020, 08:28:15 AM by Sewingforfun »
Dancing too much and trying to remember sewing is for fun! Used to be CarolC.