The Sewing Place
Machine Talk => Vintage Machines => Topic started by: LeilaMay on June 20, 2018, 14:29:36 PM
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It seems that the motor is 'gone' on my Singer 401G. It spent many weeks on the table being cleaned, some wiring repair and putting back together - now I'm finally in a position to learn how to use it, the motor has given out.
It will go back to the electrical dept. (my OH) for a check, but it seems terminal at the moment.
So I have a beautiful - um - doorstop :(
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Oh noooooo! That is an awful thing to happen LM! That is always my worry with my old machines. I'm on borrowed time with a couple of them atm.
I do hope she can be saved.... :'(
Jessie
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So here's the diagnosis:
The motor is vibrating so badly that the connection plug (inside the machine body, next to the motor) drops off. If you bodge it back for testing purposes the machine has a dreadful loud noise.
Taking the motor out and investigating, it's the bottom motor bearing, inside the impossibly hard to open motor housing, which is making the noise and vibrating badly.
OH is not a motor expert, but says he thinks this is probably terminal for this motor, and replacements are not really an option for an old cheap ebay purchase :( (Even if I knew how to find one)
If anyone has a miracle cure, please speak now . . .
:vintage:
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Ask Dave on FB...
https://www.facebook.com/groups/966147206856166/
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I am not on FB - but thank you for the idea.
I do believe I have found his website and sent a message, thank you
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If the machine is in otherwise nice condition there is hope. This model is worth the time and money a repair takes. It might take a bit of time, anything from 2 days to 2 years, but replacement motor are known to turn up. Nothing should vibrate, carbon brushes can need repacement. I'm assuming the motor on the G model is similar to the A model, except for voltage they might be identical. Have you found this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPfCADyz_rE)? Don't forget to ask Helen Howes, her husband is very good with the electrical parts.
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That's sad news. When I was looking for my 401g, I asked the local SM repair guy in the hope that he might know of one locally. He told me that motors are no longer available for them, so I guess your best hope will be Helen Howes or someone else with a salvaged part. Hope you find something that works.
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Have you asked Helen Howes if she's got a motor for the 401?
http://www.helenhowes-sewingmachines.co.uk/motors.html
Sometimes she has parts she hasn't put up on her site.
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Thank you all for these good ideas.
I cannot at the moment get the motor apart to do anything to it - as the man in the video is. It would require a special tool head which I don't have - it has a security type nut which it extra deep set onto the bolt, and our security bit won't reach.
I will contact Helen, thank you.
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Im so sorry to hear this - theyre such lovely machines.
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In the new groups.io (yahoo moved groups) for vintage singers there are a picture guide on how to take this motor appart. The guide shows a regular screw driver, but I guess there vere slight variations. You should be able to identify the correct bit or screw driver, it's too basic to be much of a barrier that should stop you.
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Online research reveals that the motors in 401A American machines do up with standard screw headed screws (or bolt?).
401G contains a French made motor, with security nuts on long bolts, recessed into the case.
Here's the bolt and nut in question ;)
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LOL, I know what you mean, I reconise that one. Get a French made bike to fix up, there's always some finiky screw or way about it requiring special tools and lots of thinking :- ) I went to a store where they sell all kinds of screw sizes possible, and they had the right tool for the job. I couldn't find anything during a quick search, it needs a bit more effort.
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Ask Dave on FB...
https://www.facebook.com/groups/966147206856166/
Well the motor is now with the repair man - but he doesn't have a tool long enough to get it open either! :(
I contacted John at Helen Howes, he doesn't currently have a second hand one but will put me on his waiting list.
I'm trying to track a whispered-about, long lost new motor but haven't heard back from the shop yet.
I'm out of ideas otherwise, so please keep your fingers crossed . . . .
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I posted a question and a link to your picture on the groups.io vintage singer group.The repair guy is probably onto it, but I am a bit curious to what tool or screw driver I need to sort out a case like that, and there are a few expert people there.
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I posted a question and a link to your picture on the groups.io vintage singer group.The repair guy is probably onto it, but I am a bit curious to what tool or screw driver I need to sort out a case like that, and there are a few expert people there.
I know he got it open - it's on it's way back to me and I hope it works better now.
But I don't know if he adapted a screw driver or some other 'work around'
Look forward to hearing :)
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I'm not getting anywhere with the post. I linked to your picture but it doesn't work. I tired to steal it (copy, store and upload to an image bin), but there's copyrigts or security in place. It's not very important, but it would be nice to have a way bout nuts and bolts like this.
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Machine is now much quieter and purring nicely - with thanks to the afore-mentioned Graham st
https://www.sewlincs.co.uk/
High;y recommend this very nice man
Leila :)
:vintage:
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That's excellent news LM! Great to hear a positive result!
Jessie
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Very pleased to hear that the 401g is back up and running. Long may it continue!
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That’s great! I’m so glad!
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I also have a 401G with a noisy motor that I'm about to start work on. My first problem is removing the motor. I've removed the plate under the motor and disconnected to wires. Unfortunately I can't pull the motor out. I'm wondering if it's seized in place or that I'm missing something like a hidden screw! Any advice would be very welcome. I will keep you posted regarding re-building the motor once I can start work on it. Thanks in advance for any help.
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Tim the motor is a 'push fit' - but we have always found them very tight to try and remove.
Our preferred method is to VERY carefully tap them out - we use a piece of copper (22 mil. dia. plumbing) tubing and a mallet, so that you are gently tapping down onto the neck of the casing not on the drive shaft. But bang it too hard and you will crack the case :(
To get it back we use sections of wood that will fit into the space and the bottom, and tap in several places with the same gentle, fingers crossed type of motion.
Having the whole machine in a nice warm room will also help a bit. The conservatory on sunny summer days was good for us.
Best of luck
Leila (and her helper Trevor)
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They recommend to give the motor axle a drop of slightly havier oil than sewing machine oil (on top of or under the worm gear near the hand wheel) It should be as pure and additive free as possible, since some oils turn sticky with time. They use various regular products though. On the 401 (400, 500 and some 600 numbers) there is a washer down there that needs lubrication and it makes noise on most machines that haven't been service for years. It's a bit tricky, it can easily be over done, so literally only one drop, and maybe a second after test sewing a bit. You notice when it seeps down to the spot. That's the easy fix, I guess a full service and disassembly will let you check carbon brushes and lubrication on both ends of the motor axle. This (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdaWx1gGZWg) blogger is very good with the mechanical side of things, I used her videos when I fixed up my 201. She briefly mentions this issue at the end of the video. This reminds me I have to get a bottle of Triflow, besides the basic oil my favorite oil so far has turned to be Finish Line Ceramic, it has teflon in it too.
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Thanks for the advice, it's like gold dust. I'll keep you posted on the progress.
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The tool to open the motor is a spanner screwdriver
Motor no pab 8-12
Motor from a 431g will fit
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The tool for the motor is a spanner screwdriver cheap on ebay the motor is a pab 8-12
A 431g motor fits
As for the bearing measure your one and there are bearing companys on the net to match it
You could fit a 301a motor which is 110v and put on a voltage converter from 230 to 110
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I’ve been researching voltage converters ours is 240 down to the 110 but just got confused. I’m reckoning on 600watts but I think I need a 1000 w thing based on what I’ve read. Aren’t machines about 6amps?
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Online research reveals that the motors in 401A American machines do up with standard screw headed screws (or bolt?).
401G contains a French made motor, with security nuts on long bolts, recessed into the case.
Here's the bolt and nut in question ;)
Hi All,
sorry for writing in the very old topic, but I have a question to LeilaMay (and others disassemblying motor in Singer 401G). I've recently bought such a machine and after having received it realized, that the plastic part of the motor, visible from the top through the hole in the casing, is cracked. Do you happen to have pictures of the French motor from the other side? How is the upper rotor bearing immobilized on top of the motor, is that part plastic or metal? Unfortunately, in the internet there is a lot of motor's pictures of 401A, but the only one picture of the French motor I was able to find, was on this forum.
Best,
Anna
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@ochanomizu
The upper bearing is an interference fit on the shaft and retained in the plastic housing with a wire circlip. The plastic neck of the motor will be very tight in the machine as the plastic swells with age. I actually found a spark plug socket to be a good drift as it needs to be a tight fit in the hole so that you aren't hammering against the circlip clips. After you have removed it, file or sand the collar down so that it is a push fit by hand for replacement. You will see that i have applied silicon grease to mine to aid removal. Hence, remove from wall, strip to remove motor, photograph, replace motor, reassemble and replace on wall, total 5 minutes.
Shout up if I can help any further.
(https://img.techpowerup.org/200529/20200529-121210.jpg)
(https://img.techpowerup.org/200529/20200529-121233.jpg)
(https://img.techpowerup.org/200529/20200529-121351.jpg)
(https://img.techpowerup.org/200529/20200529-121608.jpg)
(https://img.techpowerup.org/200529/20200529-121821.jpg)
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Thanks a lot for your help. The pictures are great, I was hoping that you might just have some of them and I am especially grateful that you took the time to unmount the motor to take them.