The Sewing Place
Machine Talk => Sewing Machines => Topic started by: Acorn on June 13, 2018, 15:15:18 PM
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Sob... my shiny new Toyota Oekaki is disgracing itself by skipping stitches whenever it can.
I have done all the usual things - rethreaded top and bottom, fiddled with tension, changed needle, changed thread. Changing the thread improved things dramatically because I was previously using a very old reel of rather lovely, but fairly thick, thread. However, it did not get rid of the skipping completely. I think it gets worse when it gets faster, but it does skip at lower speeds too. When I was doing serpentine stitch last week it was consistently skipping the stitches on the right hand curve, and that was using the thread, needle and fabric that were supplied with the machine.
@Francesca - did you have stitch skipping issues with your Oekaki?
Does anyone else have any ideas or suggestions?
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Yes - or one of the bobbins I ordered direct from Toyota, specifically for this machine, and yes the bobbin thread is going the right way - I do like the fact that this machine has arrows to show the direction of threading at top and bottom!
I have just watched a youtube video showing how to thread the machine, and I noticed that the reel of thread was turning anti-clockwise - I always have mine turning clockwise, so I tried changing that. It then did a perfect row of serpentine stitch and a perfect row of straight stitch, but I turned the reel back the other way and it stitched perfectly that way too, so that's a possible solution, but when a fault is intermittent it's hard to know when it's solved!
The most recent problems have been when I was sewing on cotton lawn, and I will test it on that when I'm sure which bits are spare.
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Bobbin in the wrong way is a classic, particularly for horizontal drop-in bobbin cases. It's easy to get this the wrong way, going from one machine to the other it can be oposite. The same for threading, machines can be very similar, but might have just one small but important differece along the thread route. I'm guessing the needle threads front to back on your Oekaki? If it has fancy functions make sure it's not a setting error.
Some machines are difficult to make behave with top stitch thread, but it's usually tension issues, not skipped stitches. What type of thread is it? Sew all weight Gütermann is my favorite for test sewing, or another trusted brand. Make sure there's nothing wrong with the needle, it's not very common but even a brand new needle has turned out to be flawed, even a bad package of needles some times.
I can't think of anything at the moment, it's usually sorted out by going through a list of points to check.
Yet another thing to check is cleaning, around the bobbin case, race hook and feed dog area. In the worst cases hard packed lint has cause all kinds of problems, including skipped stitches.
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I know nothing about all this but when my machine was misbehaving, it was because, although I had the bobbin in correctly, the thread had gone off on a frolic of it's own and wasn't lying in the right place.
If my machine isn't threaded correctly the needle threader doesn't work otherwise I'd stil be looking at it blankly. :[ It's a new machine and I'm just getting to know it.
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Well, it's still skipping stitches to the extent of sometimes being unusable. Yesterday, with a stretch needle and Guterman thread top and bottom, it was skipping as many stitches as it was sewing on a lightweight cotton jersey. It has been threaded and rethreaded top and bottom. I even followed an official Youtube video step by step.
I contacted Toyota, who sent me a phone number for a helpline, and the lady there said it is a machine fault, and that even though Toyota offer a 2 year guarantee and my machine is registered, my guarantee is actually with the seller, who does not offer any guarantee...
The Sale of Goods Act has something to say about that, though, and I have contacted the seller, who does have very good feedback. I just hope I'm not embarking on a frustrating journey.
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Oh Acorn, how very disappointing!
Trading Standards are usually helpful about matters like this. Try their website. A machine has to be fit for purpose, or why would you buy it?
Jessie
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Seller usually handles the guaratee from producer, at least around here. Part of it is formality, part of it is who shall pay for the replacement, repair or refund. Refund is always much harder to get. I guess UK isn't that far from EU regulations yet? What's EU and what's local regulations I don't know, I think they sort of sync up the different national regulations to a common EU standard. Eitherway, you know this just as well as I do. Did you buy the machine from a real store or from the web.
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The Sale of Goods Act is very straightforward. If an item develops a fault within the first 6 months it is deemed to have ben unfit for purpose when it was sold, and the buyer is therefore entitled to a refund or repair, and it is the seller's responsibility to comply with this.
Legally the position is extremely clear. Getting a seller to comply is another matter, but as they do have good feedback there is some cause for hope. They are a long-established company that now trades through Ebay, but that makes no difference.
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I would not start to worry before I contacted them, in most cases things work out. I would at last wait until they gave you some kind of refuse. Skipped stitches is very common regardless of cause it's usually sorted out. Unless the Oekaki has very flimsy build, I wouldn't worry too much. In commercials they brag somerthing awful about the Oekaki; very powerful motor, handles all sorts of material and laods of features and built in functions. You have to keep us updated on your experience on this model. I have to add, the Toyota Jeans model wasn't as impressive as the commercial, but I am used to various kinds of sewing machines.
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No good news. :( The seller wants me to get a quote for repairing the machine and says he will give me a partial refund, but there is no way I can do this. Toyota say it needs to be returned and replaced, and anyway nobody is going to give me a reliable quote without seeing the machine, and I cannot find anybody who repairs Toyota machines any closer than Somerset.
The law says that after 30 days the seller is entitled to make one attempt at repairing it, and if this fails they must then give a full refund. It is not down to me to do anything other than box it up properly and hand it over to a prearranged courier.
I have contacted Ebay directly.
:(
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Oh Acorn, what a problem! It doesn't sound as if anyone is being helpful...
I think Fran's idea is probably the best one.
Not an ideal situation though. Does it leave you without a SM?
Jessie
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I spotted a red Oekaki in the large Supermarked yesterday, it went for about the equivalent for £460 (spot on in the google currency converter this minute). How fancy are the functions on it?
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I've seen the sort of one-stitch-at-a-time freemotion tacking in a video, what I missed was the fancy pedal function. In free motion some have this fantastic technique with just the straight stitch hand hand movements. Some follow a drawn line on the fabric, others sort of draw freely from the needle and thread.
Machines in a large supermarket (or is it call hypermarket?) aren't set up for test sewing, so I didn't get a feel for anything on the Oekaki. The offer was good though, at least for my area. Online purchases can be cumbersome later on. Large stores are usually good with guarantees and returns as long as you keep the receipt.
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Is it not possible to return the machine to Toyota via courier and then get the seller to refund the cost of that courier?
Unfortunately my guarantee is with the seller, not with Toyota, and the seller says his guarantee was only for 14 days. Legally he doesn't have a leg to stand on - a new item has to be fit for purpose for at least 6 months - but I don't have any recourse directly with Toyota. I'm not prepared to take on more expense without any guarantee that he will pay anything, and I certainly don't want to let the machine out of my possession without any certainty as to what is happening.
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Yes I did pay with Paypal, and I have just contacted Ebay directly. Should I contact Paypal as well, do you think?
@b15erk Fortunately I have two other machines (and my Featherweight). This was going to be a good strong workhorse to add to the stable. I think it would do very well as that if it didn't skip so many stitches! It is wonderfully solid, and on the one type of fabric where it didn't skip the stitching was lovely.
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The CAB consumer helpline might be useful. 03454 04 05 06.
I really hope you can get this sorted.
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I have contacted Ebay directly.
:(
Hope you used paypal, if you did you'll be ok
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I did use Paypal - I always do if it is available.
Because I had had it for more than 30 days when I raised the issue (34 days, I think it was) the seller is legally entitled to have one attempt to have it repaired, so if he chooses that route I will have no option but to accept it. I don't think he will though, because the cost of getting it couriered somewhere to be assessed, the risk of it being unrepairable (or very expensive to repair) and the cost of couriering it back to me could make that a very expensive option for him.
If he had it repaired and it failed again he would then be required to give me a full refund with no further opportunity to repair it.
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Ebay have replied and said that it is outside their Money Back Guarantee period (which is 30 days from delivery), but have advised me to file a dispute with Paypal, where it is still covered. PayPal Buyer Protection lasts for 180 days (and covers the simple 'wasn't as described', which includes this situation, as a new item shouldn't be faulty).
I have contacted the seller and told them that, as a courtesy, I am giving them the opportunity to resolve this themselves, but that I will file a dispute on Tuesday if I haven't heard from them.
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There are sellers that will give you 5 years guarantee on this model. It's mostly factory fault, some kind of defect that turns up with intended use of the product and can be shown not to be carelessness or other accidental damages. Some machines are flimsy though, and it's just the way they are. Ebay isn't the same as a regular store with dependable customer relations. Up fron they appear to do their best for seller and buyer, but it's simplified and they have largely set up their own game. In general the same rules apply for all sale and guarantees, but it depens very upon seller and how much work you are willing to put into it when you need them.
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Ebay have replied and said that it is outside their Money Back Guarantee period (which is 30 days from delivery), but have advised me to file a dispute with Paypal, where it is still covered. PayPal Buyer Protection lasts for 180 days (and covers the simple 'wasn't as described', which includes this situation, as a new item shouldn't be faulty).
I have contacted the seller and told them that, as a courtesy, I am giving them the opportunity to resolve this themselves, but that I will file a dispute on Tuesday if I haven't heard from them.
I'm sorry you are having problems with your new machine, as I know how happy you were when you first ordered it. I just wanted to say I use PAYPAL mostly when buying online, not only on ebay. I like the added protection it gives you. I haven't been let down once by PAYPAL when I have had a dispute. i have noticed when you tell the Seller you are going to mark it as a complaint to PAYPAL, they soon come back to you to sort it out. I would never ever buy off ebay unless it was using PAYPAL.
Am hoping you get a speedy resolution to this very soon.
lizzy
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Thanks @Lizzy777 - I also use Paypal whenever it's offered partly because of the protection, but also because it dramatically reduces the number of places that have my credit card details! Mr Acorn has used the resolution service a few times and has had such a fast result that he almost felt sorry for the sellers!
@arrow Fortunately Paypal (and Ebay if it is less than 30 days since the item was delivered) will deal with any issues without the seller having to co-operate. I did get this machine at a very good price - £299 - and at that price I had a choice of this Ebay shop or the British Sewing Centre. As the Ebay shop had excellent feedback, unlike the BSC, I chose them. I wouldn't do so again! The BSC appear to be the representatives for this machine in the UK - they run the helpline - and they do offer an excellent guarantee. Unfortunately their price for it has now gone up to £399. :(
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Isn't the BSC (British Sewing Centre) part of Mr.Coopers empire? e.g. Coopers Sewing Machines.
Would be interesting to know who has this Ebay shop but I wouldn't post this information online until you get your complaint resolved to your satisfaction.
Always such a relief when you know you have used PAYPAL if there are any queries :)
lizzy
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Yes, I think so. There seems to be quite a spider's web of companies that are linked together once you start digging.
I am quite sure that the Ebay shop isn't in that web - they sell a lot of things apart from sewing machines - and I think they genuinely don't understand that the manufacturer can't give a price over the phone for repairing a machine that's skipping stitches.
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You can get this machine from Hobbycraft but only by mail order it is not in their shops
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Only the red one, unfortunately. Mine is the turquoise one, which is aimed at quilters and has some differences to the others, and a lot of extra accessories.
Looks like a good price at Hobbycraft, too. -<
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I didn’t realise there was a difference, I am just intrigued by this machine but have been rather put off by your experience
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I have to say that I googled and googled and googled and I couldn't find any other instances of this problem, so I am happy to assume that it is an unusual and untypical fault. It has crossed my mind that it might have been dropped in transit.
The machine itself is lovely - very solid, much less rattle-y than either of my two (much more expensive) machines, and the unskipped stitches were very nice indeed.
@Francesca worked for Toyota and had a lot to do with the Oekaki machine - I know she thinks well of it.
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Yay! The seller has just agreed to give me a full refund.
I got as far as initiating the Paypal resolution, having sent the first message saying that if I didn't get a proper response quickly I was going straight for the Paypal claim. The Paypal case will stay open until August 5th, so if he hasn't sent me the refund by then Paypal will deal with it (and him).
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Great news!
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Will it be a new Oekaki or something else? I keep looking at a red one everytime I enter a local store here. I tried the buttonholer, but I detected three preset types (if I remember correctly), they all seem to have exactly the same zigzag width? I didn't get to play around with it enough to understand all finer settings and functions though. I've seen similar buttonholer feet on Janome and Singer models the long white plastic type that measure the size of the button. I couldn't find any width setting at all?
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He's just refunding the money - he doesn't have any more in stock.
Mine was the turquoise one, which isn't quite the same as the red one, and I didn't get around to trying out buttonholes. There is a stitch width setting on the led display, which is very simple, it pretty much just gives the stitch number (to cross reference with a chart), the length, the width and the stitching speed.
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What is the difference between the red one and the one you have, I have tried to find out on line but all I could see was maybe the extension table, I am curious will you buy another or are you going to get something else?
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Yay! The seller has just agreed to give me a full refund.
I got as far as initiating the Paypal resolution, having sent the first message saying that if I didn't get a proper response quickly I was going straight for the Paypal claim. The Paypal case will stay open until August 5th, so if he hasn't sent me the refund by then Paypal will deal with it (and him).
That's great news. Am really pleased to hear you are getting your money refunded. Good old Paypal :)
lizzy
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Good to hear a positive result!
You can move on to the next machine now!
Jessie
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Francesca,
I've sent you a PM to express interest in the Oekaki...
Annieg :D
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What is the difference between the red one and the one you have, I have tried to find out on line but all I could see was maybe the extension table, I am curious will you buy another or are you going to get something else?
I can't remember off the top of my head (I'm in a hotel room on my phone, so I can't look it up easily) but the specs on the Toyota Oekaki website are different.
I haven't decided what I'm going to do yet. I was actually looking for a simple machine with a large harp space when the Oekaki drew me in and seduced me. It is a lovely machine and I don't rule out getting another.
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Interesting (lack of) development.
For 3 days now I've been asking him for the address he wants me to give to the courier for the return of the machine, and I'm getting no response. I'm wondering whether he's trying to delay things beyond the limit for the PayPal claim.
It won't work if he is because I know exactly when the deadline is and I certainly won't let it pass. In fact, as I told him I would arrange for it to be collected from me next Monday, if I haven't got an address by then I'll hand it over to PayPal rather than waiting any longer.
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That doesn't sound too good does it? Can you not just make it a full complaint and get Paypal to deal with it now?
If he won't give you an address then let Paypal take over and deal with him direct. I mean how can you send the sewing machine to PayPal? Have they agreed this? I wouldn't deal direct with him now. I would go back to PayPal?
I've forgotten the procedure but am going to have a look at it now. I am so sorry you are experiencing this problem. It is stressful and thats not what anybody needs is it.
lizzy
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Well, I have the address and I have booked a collection with Hermes for tomorrow (including insurance). I have taken photographs of the machine from all angles, showing that it is in perfect condition cosmetically, and of the bits and pieces that have gone into the box, showing that they are all there.
I told the seller that I would take the photographs ('in case anything happens to it in transit') so he knows he can't claim I've returned anything other than everything that I was sent.
He should get it within 3 working days (my experience is that Hermes deliveries are faster than that, but 3 days is their stated aim), so I will start looking for the money on Thursday. If I haven't had it by the end of the month I will escalate it with Paypal.
I think I have all bases covered!
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That's great to hear Acorn. Fingers crossed he does the decent thing and just gives you a full refund
without anymore hassle, as you have had enough grief with this already. Thank you for giving an update. :)
lizzy
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Well, the seller signed for the machine at lunchtime last Friday, but I haven't had my refund. I contacted him yesterday but have had no reply, so I have escalated the claim with Paypal.
I was concerned that the seller, having possession of the machine and the money, was trying to delay things until next Monday, when the Paypal case would be closed and could not be re-opened.
I don't think there is much question about what Paypal will do - they have a record of him offering me a full refund, and I have proof via Hermes that he has received the machine. I just hope they don't take the 30 days that they say is typical!
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I hope you get your refund soon it’s horrible having these sort of things hanging over your head
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I have the refund. :)
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I'm so pleased everything has been sorted now. It's been such a disappointment, worry, and a load of hassle and faff for you.
Sandra.
xxx
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@Acorn Congratulations - persistence pays.
Are you going to buy the same machine again?
Annieg
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So glad that you have received the refund, bet your heart was in your mouth for a while. Now you can breathe easily and take your time over what you are going to do now. Will be interesting to see what you end of getting, and hopefully this time it will be a place that has a good reputation.
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I have the refund. :)
That's great Acorn. Am so pleased its been sorted out even if you did have to refer it back to PayPal. PayPal are very good and quick with refunds! Thank you for letting us know the outcome.
lizzy
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Acorn, good news about the refund and please let us know what machine you buy as a replacement.
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Thanks everyone. :)
I haven't decided what I'm going to do yet. I have looked at the same machine, but with a manufacturer's guarantee I would be paying an awful lot more. There are a couple that are pre-owned but unused on Ebay (private sellers), but I'm a little risk averse at the moment!
Ideally I would like to find a fairly basic but tough machine with a large harp space, but they're extremely hard to find without spending a lot of money. I'd be happy with a vintage machine if it had the large harp space.
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Acorn I bought one of these a short while ago. My intention was to use it for embroidery but I decided to use it for a project or two. It would not stitch correctly on a poly crepe, blouse weight. Apart from using the Toyota bobbin in the Toyota I used the identical thread, needle fabric combo on my mechanical Bernina. No probs there. The Toyota stitched ok on firmer heavier fabrics. I haven’t proceeded with trying to get it checked or replaced yet. It looks like this machine has problems. Pretty annoying.
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Oh that is interesting. Mine skipped stitches on every type of fabric I tried (I didn't try anything very heavy) but it was vastly worse on lightweight jersey - to the extent that it was skipping far more stitches than it was sewing.
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Skipped stitches are usually caused by something like threading, cleaning, timing, or other mechanical issue has gone wrong. Less then perfect stitches on flimsy material are more common, and the solution is spray on stabilisers, hoops, fusible interfacing,...
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I didn't do much embroidery on it - just played around on the first day I had it, on the fairly thick sample material they supplied. I don't recall any skipping problems with that, but they wouldn't have been as immediately noticeable as with straight stitching. Doing serpentine stitch on the same fabric was a nightmare - it skipped all the stitches on the right hand side. That was the only time there was any regularity to the skipping though.
The lightweight jersey was making a dress, which I had to transfer to a different machine. I didn't get beyond straight stitch on the seams before I gave up.
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NowI have a dilemma. I was fed up with the Toyota skipping stitches on pretty normal fabrics, straight stitching, and contacted the supplier. They’ve sent me all the bits of paper to send it back for repair, so I decided to do a few samples of skipped stitches so they could see what I’m on about. Every darned fabric I’ve put through it this morning has absolutely bang on perfect stitches. I have a few more days before they close the dossier, what would you do? In an unusually organised fit I got rid of the scraps from the poly crepe, blouse weight, which was the worst offender. I’m almost ready to hack a bit off the finished shirt. Could it have got banged about in transit and suddenly settled down? Is that possible ?
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I know a lot of you have Toyota machines with which you're very happy but I would steer clear of them as I've not heard of any positive reports. Sorry if I'm being a bit dismissive about Toyotas.
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Isn't that typical @jen :( - machinery of any kind that goes wrong...until the moment you want it to! I was thinking what would I do. Probably stitch on it as much as possible for the next few days and if it skipped even once off it goes. If not could you email to explain its intermittent so could you give it a last chance - keep the door open for return/repair. Very frustrating though.
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Good strategy Vezeley.
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I found this with my Oekaki. As soon as I tried to demonstrate where it was skipping, it stopped and behaved impeccably. When I tried to sew a garment it went haywire again.
I reckon it knew when it was being tested and pulled its socks up.
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@Acorn That’s what I’m afraid of :D