The Sewing Place
The Emporia => In the wardrobe => Patterns Discussion => Topic started by: Bowerbird on July 05, 2019, 04:31:28 AM
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I have come to a standstill with B6634 (https://butterick.mccall.com/b6634) due to the idiocy of Big 4 sizing. :fish: :fish:
I want to love it, but it looks like I am wearing Andre the Giant's loose fitting pyjama top so I have lost the love, and will have to force myself finish it.
I took my measurements- :angry: :angry: :angry:
if I followed their chart my full bust & hip measurement would have put me in an XL
My high bust (you know, the measurement that is recommended we actually use because they make the patterns too big) put me at the upper range of L, so that's what I made, see above comparison notes re finished product.
Silly me, I forgot to take into account that Tilton patterns can be too big too.
I have taken the sides in (over 4" total) to the point that I think I may have actually been able to make a medium, except that would mean buying another pattern, because, you know, separate packets.
Why do the pattern companies do this? Do they ever make the clothes for the appropriate sized person?
And they wonder why I :toast: :gin:
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And just when you're getting used to that you find that many of the inde patterns are the exact opposite - way too small which is even worse because the seam allowances are usually too tiny to let them out. After a few disasters I've taken to measuring all the pattern pieces and sizing up to be safe.
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Yep, consistency is not a word in their collective vocabularies.
It shouldn't be that hard.
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This is a "big 4" pattern, and goes some way to explaining the ridiculousness of patterns. You usually find on the big 4, at the bust and hip points, usually on the front pattern piece, there will be the finished width measurements. As you can see, this pattern has an extra 10.5 INCHES of ease, built in! Its no wonder nothing fits.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/1966/29916231297_c35634fb58.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/MzAvik)Ridiculous ease (https://flic.kr/p/MzAvik) by Dani (https://www.flickr.com/photos/datcat/), on Flickr
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That’s why I always make a really rough toile of a new pattern.
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I have pretty much given up on the big 4, apart from the odd Vogue. The inconsistent sizing is just too much. How can they think anyone needs 4inch ease on s skirt waistband!
I have had much better results from Style Arc, Itch to Stitch, and Named.
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Having just finished the toile I made for Butterick 6026, I couldn't agree more.
The sizing is ridiculous. I made up the size 20, just a little larger than I needed according to the pattern. It's absolutely huge! I've taken it in as far as I can at the sides - about 3", and also took a little more in the dart.
We shouldn't have to make a toile for everything we make surely?
Jessie
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I do make a rough toile for almost everything I make... and I mean rough toile, usually only the main pieces. After years of sewing I find it’s the only way to get a good result. Sometimes the garment doesn’t get made because the toile gives a good idea if the shape will suit me.
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@b15erk "We shouldn't have to make a toile for everything we make surely?"
I hear this, it really put me off sewing as a hobby for a bit. The expense was getting crazy, not to mention the discouragement. I'm sewing again now but not buying new patterns, just working with what I've got. As I use a new-to-me pattern from my collection I use one that I know fits as my guide. I'm finding it a better method than just measuring... my measuring leaves much to be desired!
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If you look in the pattern books you will see an ease chart. It details how much ease is in various different fitting garments. So a close fitting garment will have very little ease. But a loose fit or very loose fit will have far more ease. I know Vogue have a fit description on their pattern pages. It seems that some of the other companies have stopped this. But this shows how much ease is needed to get the desired look that the designer intended. Surely we don’t expect all garments to fit the same? The info is there as @Francesca says.
Many of the independent pattern companies don’t give any info like this. You are left guessing or measuring the pattern as I’ve often had to for students as finished width measurements are nowhere to be found!
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I find that the big 4 are ok, but then I do pattern fit and look at the measurements on the pattern.
Now I’ve got used to their sizing, I now know to cut a 14 back, 16 bodice front with a 5 cm FBA and grade out the hips and waist to 18. Any adjustments for ease I make when I pattern fit. Rarely do I make a toile unless a complicated FBA
I would expect pyjamas to have a lot of ease, plus is the pattern unisex?
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The big 4 are usually OK although IME it's Vogue which sometimes has too much ease.
I have a basic bodice cut from B5627 (https://jaycotts.co.uk/products/b5627#.XR9eE3t7lR1) with all the necessary tweeks to fit me; the adjusted pattern with vilene fused to it for longevity, which I use to compare with an untried pattern. That gives me a good idea as to how much ease the new pattern will have.
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That's a good idea @BrendaP is the Vilene bonded to fabric or to paper? I often use a pattern that I know fits me to compare with a new pattern, after measuring, but the tissue gets tatty. I don't buy many patterns, I have a few TNT ones which I mostly use.
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My problem is I think it should be what it says on the packet. Silly me.
If I have to check measurements, make a toile, check ease etc etc, then it means that I am wasting a lot of time to make something that isn't what it says on the label. Considering these problems have been known about for years and years why do they persist with it (and why do I persist with it is another question).
I know I have a few changes to make in the first place, narrow shoulders & FBA are a given, but by the time I've finished faffing around I don't want to make said pattern anymore.
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My problem is I think it should be what it says on the packet. Silly me.
Completely agree. Have you looked at Burda patterns in the magazines? Their line drawings often look a little odd but they enable you to see the design features clearly & I find them true to size. They always go together very well but I understand a lot of people don't want to trace off. Ditto with their patterns sold as singles.
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@Bowerbird I agree too. Burda and Ottobre get it right. Why can't the others?
@datcat23 10.5" of ease is just ridiculous, unless it's a pattern for a pantomime horse.
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is the Vilene bonded to fabric or to paper?
Paper. The vilene is thin enough to still see all the markings and alterations.
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They don't always put all of the finished garment measurements on the packet though, which frustrates me. You have to open them up to find a lot of the detail that you need. I find that indie patterns are a bit more forthcoming with their finished garment measurements so that you can check before buying.
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They don't always put all of the finished garment measurements on the packet though, which frustrates me. You have to open them up to find a lot of the detail that you need. I find that indie patterns are a bit more forthcoming with their finished garment measurements so that you can check before buying.
That annoys me too -, I often fall between 2 size ranges and I need to know the finished measurements to decide which to buy
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That annoys me too -, I often fall between 2 size ranges and I need to know the finished measurements to decide which to buy
If there is a fit description such as Fitted, Close fitting etc. That will give you the minimum and maximum amount of ease over and above body measurements.
If a pattern is bought in a shop, you can always ask to see the info on the pattern sheet. Any decent shop will do that for you. Then you can leave them to fold the pattern pieces back up. :)
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Sadly I haven't been able to buy a pattern from a shop for years! I'm reliant on the information on the internet - which isn't always much
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@BrendaP thanks, I'll have a go at that with my favourite patterns.