The Sewing Place
Machine Talk => Overlockers & Coverstitchers => Topic started by: Andymat on November 09, 2021, 11:34:30 AM
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I am wondering more now about getting an Overlocker. I am intending to make more T-Shirts, hoodies etc using materials with varying degrees of stretch as well as shirts and trousers.
So far, using my mother's vintage Pfaff 1471 I have been using a lot of the over-edge stitches (psudo overlock) to finish the edges on non stretch materials as well as for stretch applications. Which is OK but I am wondering if an overlocker would be quicker and easier for these applications (as long as I can get my head around the threading).
I have been thinking about my requirements and I think a machine with a warranty is important rather than second hand, but I do not want to spend a great deal on this until I know what I am doing with it and can see the benefits of spending more in the future.
Initially I looked at the Necchi one from ALDI at £149.99. However, although this seems to have good reviews and is more money and I think better quality than ALDI's previous incarnations, I am a bit nervous of this machine. It does do 2 thread stitching though.
I am now thinking about a Brother 2104D which is 3 or 4 thread only but perhaps a bit more reliable - it seems to get very good reviews. And is £219 and comes with blind hem, piping and gathering feet. Do I need 2 thread stitching and these feet in a starter machine do you think?
If I get on with it and find it useful, I would be happy to spend a bit more in the future on a better machine if I felt the extra features would be useful but at the moment I think I probably just need something to get me started.
Does anyone have any thoughts?
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I'd go for the Brother if that is all you want to pay.
I've had an older model but almost identical for 30 years and I wouldn't change it unless I needed to. Mine is a 3 thread only machine which means I have to seam on my regular machine then overlock. I actually prefer that method as you are not cutting your fabric before you've tried it on for fit and knit fabrics can fit differently from piece to piece even using the same pattern......
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Overlockers are just brilliant and produce such a lovely finish. However I would steer well clear of one from Aldi, they have been known in the past to not be reliable and some even do not work properly, so in my opinion a waste of money. I cannot comment on the Brother ones as I have never used them, however there was one when I went on a course and it was so loud compared to other ones. May I suggest you go for a really decent one, one that will last you and do exactly what you want, that way there is less likelihood of any trouble. I cannot see the point of starting out on a cheaper machine, and then finding you really need a better quality one in the future, after all these machines are not exactly cheap are they. Good luck.
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If you sew a lot of t shirts and hoodies don't even think, just buy.
You will finish your first and sit there wondering why you didn't buy one before. You will zoom through them like grease lightening and have a wardrobe of immaculate new t shirts in shorter time than you could pop down to Primark and say 'where is the men's department'?
There is absolutely, not one logical reason I can think of that a person who makes mainly t shirts and hoodies would not need an overlocker!
Anyway
i have a Babylock 1064D (I think without checking which I will do later) four thread. The only downside is if you need to thread it with a different colour, which you rarely do as you tie the ends on and run it through and is the same with all of them as far as I am aware.
BB
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Getting an overlocker for sewing knits is a no brainer to me. I thought I could manage without one until I bought one - wow, what a revelation. I wouldn't be without one at all now.
However, don't buy a cheap one to see if you like it because the cheaper ones often have more problems. If you can get to a sewing machine shop to try one or have one demonstrated that would be ideal. Otherwise go for the best you can afford - Brother, Janome etc. and buy from a reputable site. I wouldn't recommend Lidl, Aldi or Argos simply because of their aftercare.
A 4 thread is good as you can then use it as a two or three thread and do rolled hems on it and a bunch of other stuff.
Get one! You won't regret it!! :D
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This is where I was nearly 10 years ago! I didn't want to spend a lot of money on an overlocker as they were a complete unknown to me, but I could see that they would be good for knits and seam finishing.
I went with a Singer from Lidl for £99. (Lidl have also got an overlocker in stock this week). My machine was very good, but from other reports on this forum, other people weren't so lucky. I used it a lot and after five years or so decided to upgrade to a Juki654DE at just over £400 at the time. I sold the Singer, which was still going strong. It had served its purpose as a starter machine.
I wouldn't get too excited about the 2-thread stitch. When I tried it with the Singer it never worked satisfactorily as it relies on a little plastic spreader thingy, which keeps falling off. When I bought the Juki, I asked about 2-thread stitching, saying what I'd found, and the dealer pretty much admitted that it doesn't ever work very well on any machine. Maybe the TOL models are different. In any case I've found 3-thread or 4-thread work well for what I do.
My machine came with an elastic gathering foot which I haven't used to date. It's still in the packet. I don't use any additional feet, but your needs will depend on what you are intending to sew.
Threading is fiddly, but can be avoided much of the time by pulling threads through (loosen all tension dials, snip off the old threads near the cone, tie on your new threads to the tail and gently pull - you might need to rethread the needles if the knot doesn't want to go through the eye - then reset the tension). When you do need to thread the machine from scratch, take your time, use the tweezers provided and do it slowly and methodically following the handbook and it will be fine, if sometimes exasperating! YouTube can be a big help.
Generally I would say go for it if you sew knits. An overlocker is a game-changer.
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Definitely get an overlocker. They are fabulous for all sorts of garments but particularly for sewing knits.
Don’t buy cheap because they are usually harder to thread, lead to lots of frustration and it won’t get used. Steer clear of Lidl, Aldi and Argos as already said. I’ve been responsible for sending lots back to these shops after myself and the engineer couldn’t get them working.
Overlockers are completely different to a sewing machine and I would highly recommend you get to a shop where you can have them demonstrated and be given all the pros and cons of various ones even if they’re not in stock. There won’t be as many overlockers as sewing machines in stock because they don’t sell so many. But there’s no reason why a decent dealer shouldn’t be able to give you info and advice. Ease of threading is worth paying for but that doesn’t mean you have to fork out Babylock prices. Brother have some easy threading machines. I’m personally not a fan of them for various reasons but many people like them. Jaguar also do an easy threading machine. I was surprised at how nice that machine ran. Janome do some reasonably priced overlockers. They sew well although the threading is not the easiest. If you buy from a dealer they should show you how to thread it up, how it works, what all the dials are for etc etc. If you buy online you will have to go it alone. :)
You don’t need lots of feet and you don’t need it to do 2 thread. Not all machines do this. Differential feed is a must but I’m sure all machines nowadays have this. Just the old ones that don’t.
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I am very pleased with my new Jaguar 488. If your budget runs that far, I can recommend it.
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i just want to add that I had a Necchi originally, had it a couple of months and I had all kind of problems with it so off I went and got the Babylock. It would be a false economy.
BB
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By all means get an overlocker but beware they are different beasts. I found Chris James The Complete Serger Handbook (available 2nd hand online at wildly varying prices) a godsend when I was trying to fathom how to make the machine do what I wanted it to do.
Also do note that overlockers generally take different needles from sewing machines so it's worth stocking up while you're shopping.
My 20-odd year old Singer (from before Singer went down the pan big time) is five-thread so it can be converted to cover stitch. Doing this is a bit of a faff so I keep that step to the end of the project rather than flip back and forwards. It does give a nice finish on the hems of T-shirts, though.
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I've had Janome and was highly satisfied and it worked for its money @Andymat . I upgraded to a Bernina and loving it (needle threader). For knit fabric, especially all the time, an essential tool which will earn its keep. Threading can look horrendous to start off with but after use is a piece of cake.
Spend as much as you can, it will be worth it even if it is a pinch at the time.
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I had the Brother 1034D for many years, I decided I wanted an upgrade and now have a Babylock Imagine 2. I gave the Brother to DDiL and she uses it regularly still and it is at least 20 years old. It also uses ordinary machine needles. The only "oddity" if you like is that it has to be threaded in sequence though how it knows if it isn't I'm not sure but it can play up if you don't - as I found out several times.
I wouldn't be without an overlocker now although for years I used the machine zigzag stitch or the overlocker type stitch - neither is as good as the real thing.
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You definitely won’t want to go back to being without one, once you get used to it. One thing I would add, which I don’t think anyone has mentioned, is the value of having Differential Feed. I seem to have mine turned on slightly for most knit seams. (If you stitch a sample seam and put your work on the table, it should lie flat. If the edge is wavy, it has stretched and you should have used Diff Feed). There are many other uses, but that is an important one. Go for it and enjoy!
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I have the Bernina 800DL, which used to be made by Juki for them. It’s a great machine and I think Juki are still selling them under their own name but I can’t remember the model number. As others have said, don’t buy from Lidl or Argos but go to a dealer so that you try to find the one that’s right for you. Sewing Machine World, Kings Lynn or SMD, Wrexham are both good for on line purchases.
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You definitely won’t want to go back to being without one, once you get used to it. One thing I would add, which I don’t think anyone has mentioned, is the value of having Differential Feed. I seem to have mine turned on slightly for most knit seams. (If you stitch a sample seam and put your work on the table, it should lie flat. If the edge is wavy, it has stretched and you should have used Diff Feed). There are many other uses, but that is an important one. Go for it and enjoy!
I don't think you can get them without Diff Feed these days @Stitchalot, and it was what swayed my choice 30 years ago! The only other one at the time, a Janome, didn't have it so I ended up with a 3 thread machine and Diff Feed which was better than an extra thread for £100 extra!
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I sew lots of jersey and couldn't do it without an overlocker! I have a Brother 3034, had it about 6 years, it's great. Very noisy, but sews well. The threading is dead easy, just remember to do each thread in the right order.
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I have the Bernina 800DL, which used to be made by Juki for them. It’s a great machine and I think Juki are still selling them under their own name but I can’t remember the model number.
I did a search and I think the Juki version is a MO-104D. It seems to be more expensive than the Bernina although the Bernina is no longer available by the looks of things.
I did look for this Bernina machine when I started looking as the PattyDoo lady in Germany uses one and I was intrigued. I just wasn't thinking of spending that sort of money but now people are making me think twice!
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I sew lots of jersey and couldn't do it without an overlocker! I have a Brother 3034, had it about 6 years, it's great. Very noisy...
I have heard that the Brother machines were quite noisy - I wonder if that is one of the reasons why @Ohsewsimple is not keen?
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Thank you everyone - there is certainly a lot to think about in your comments and they are all much appreciated.
There is a shop in Whitley Bay which I might go and take a look in. It would be useful to see (and hear) a machine or two - I do not know anyone who has one at the moment.
Many thanks, Andy
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@Andymat I used loads of different makes and models in my job. I have a Bernina myself. It sounds nice. That may sound weird but you just know somehow it’s going to be nice to use.
The Brothers I’ve used don’t sound great but the problems I had were not being able to get a decent finish in some fine fabric. At the time the Brother rep was with us. She couldn’t get it to work well either. :( But they’re miles better than the machines from Lidl that I’ve had to try and sort out ! :laughing: Enough to try the patience of anyone.
Just because a company makes a nice sewing machine doesn’t mean their overlockers will be good.
My sewing machines are Husqvarna but I’m not that keen on their overlockers. PITA to thread.
Of course they don’t make them themselves. Used to be made by Toyota. Not sure who makes them now as I’m a bit out of the loop.
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Thanks for this @Ohsewsimple. It does sound like there are quite a few machines that are made for other companies. I was reading earlier that Jaguar make machines that are branded and sold by other companies. I was surprised that the Bernina 800DL was not made by Bernina! I think they may be making their own now?!
I think the general consensus is not to go with the ALDI/LIDL end of the market as that route could well be a bit of a lottery at best.
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Get yourself down to Tully's in Sunderland. It's near TKMaxx. They won't try to oversell and will answer all your questions. I'm in Durham and both my sewing machine and overlocker are from there - they delivered the overlocker themselves!
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Get yourself down to Tully's in Sunderland. It's near TKMaxx. They won't try to oversell and will answer all your questions. I'm in Durham and both my sewing machine and overlocker are from there - they delivered the overlocker themselves!
Oh yes - It saves on the tunnel tolls too!
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Yes @Andymat Juki used to make Bernina but as you say I think they make their own now.
Jaguar also used to make one of the lower end Babylock machines.
I think out of all the cheapie machines like Lidl I probably had 2 that were usable. Such a shock when it happened! :) Oh and a Necchi where the instruction book was printed so badly it was totally illegible so no use to the owner. Just hope she remembered how to thread it up after I showed her. :laughing:
Just a thought. If you get one from a shop and they show you how to thread it etc, ask if you can film them doing it on a phone. I did this sometimes so there is a reference to go back to.
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And my Bernina L450 is definitely quiet er than the brother that was demonstrated to me and very easy to thread. Even the brother was quieter than a regular machine zigzagging at full pelt, though!
YouTube is full of threading videos, too, if needed.
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Oh yes - It saves on the tunnel tolls too!
And faffing with the new and flaky tunnel app!
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I think Jaguar might be connected with the old Frister & Rossman company? There is a You Tube video showing the threading - completely different arrangement to other machines. My old overlocker was a Janome and the Jaguar has been a revelation to me - quiet, lovely stitching and the threading revolution.
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@Andymat I have bought from the shop in Whitley Bay and they were very nice to deal with and I got a real bargain too.
Mind you this was before COVID, there aren’t the same sort of deals these days.
You won’t regret buying an O/L, they are wonderful.
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I have heard that the Brother machines were quite noisy - I wonder if that is one of the reasons why @Ohsewsimple is not keen?
When I bought my Bernina 1150 I tried a Brother, a Pfaff and the Benina. The Brother sounded really rough but sewed OK, the Pfaff had tension problems! and the Bernina sewed well and quietly.
As others have said, if you sew much jersey you wouldn't want to be without an overlocker, but they are also good for clean finishing seam allowances on wovens.
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Regarding Brother's being noisy, the newer ones are noisier than the older ones. Mine purrs along but it's mainly metal and the newer ones have much more plastic and do sound very different.
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Essential for knits if you want to get the work done quickly and neatly so you can move on to other things. They stitch much faster than most sewing machines. They overlock a much prettier seam than your sewing machine will do and in a fraction of the time.
Noise is a relative thing. You aren't turning it on and having it drone away for hours on end. Sew a seam, 30 seconds, quiet. Ready the next seam, sew in 20 seconds, quiet. My Singer probably isn't super quiet but it certainly doesn't annoy me. By what I've listened to they all make more noise than a sewing machine. Where you want quiet is an embroidery machine. Those can drone on for hours. BTW you can put any machine on a mat made from that open weave shelf liner or the under skid gard for throw rugs and it will reduce the noise considerably. Keeps it in one place too.
What you need depends on what you intend to make. Someone mentioned a particular machine wasn't so good in her experience on thin delicate fabric. If that isn't something you'd be doing then it doesn't really apply to your decision making.
I wanted to be able to get a very tiny, tight narrow rolled hem using embroidery thread on very thin silk. Not all machines can do that. I had taken a class with Kayla Kennington who uses this technique a great deal in her garments. She said one machine she had paid $1600 for couldn't do it.
Well, the Viking dealer was snotty and snooty. I went back the next day with my friend who had recently purchased the then top of the line embroidery/sewing machine. Oops! The owner turned white before she fauned all over me. The Babylock/Bernina dealership couldn't even bother to have one of the sales people chatting with each other walk over to say high. Too bad, I changed every setting on every machine. So I went to a big box multi line store, Walmart and bought a lower end Singer. I could return it within 90 days no questions asked. The cashier told me to sew like crazy and then bring it back if I didn't like it. It was $159, a third of what my OH had spent on an awful one a few weeks before that went back immediately. Guess what? My cheapy machine can do that tiny rolled hem. As well as anything else I throw at it.
Dealers are excellent to buy from if you have a good reliable dealer thatisconvenientlylocated. Based on my shopping experience I didn't expect any support from any of the local dealers. In my case buying from the big box made sense as I always read through manuals first and have no problem understanding them.
Last year I took a Bernina sponsored class at a newer local dealership on the overlocker from one of Bernina's instructors. Dreamy machine but for me crazy expensive.
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I use my 6 year old €200 Brother 1034D overlocker on every garment i make. I keep waiting for it to go wrong so I can treat myself to a fancy new one, but it never has. It's a real workhorse, a little gem. A friend has asked me to leave it her in my will.
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@Andymat DO NOT touch the Necchi with a bargepole!
My neighbour bought one and called me over because she was having issues with it. It was a nightmare to thread and I ended up having to useca long darning needle to get the thread behind a huge chunk of metal that obscured everything. Once threaded we couldn't get a decent stitch and every time it got knotted up or broke a thread it necessitated the 20 minute threading process.
My o/l is the cheapest Elna ( recommended by the man in a little shop). It's much used, easy to thread and hasn't caused me any issues - I dont think I've ever had to even change the tension.
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Thanks again for everybody's thoughts on this - it is really helpful to hear what other people's experiences are.
The news is that I have actually bought an overlocker! I went to one of the local dealers and I honestly wasn't expecting to buy one there and then. It was intended to be a fact finding mission, even though I had done quite a bit of research on line and had all these comments on here.
I played briefly with the Brother 2104D which did indeed sound quite noisy but it was a more tinny sort of noise that didn't inspire confidence. I also was shown the Jaguar machine which had previously caught my eye and was recommended by @Greybird (thanks). The front opens up fully for threading and I had noticed the left hand front section was made of metal. It feels solid and sounds quieter and more professional and produced a better stitch.
So in the end I went for the Jaguar 99 which does have the 2,3 and 4 thread options. I do not know whether I will use the 2 thread feature but at least it will give me that option in the future and it wasn't that much of a premium.
So far I am pleased with it although it will take a bit of time and use to get used to it. Will see how it goes.
Thanks again everybody for your thoughts and I will post an update when I have used it more.
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Another satisfied Jaguar owner here - mine is the Frister & Rossmann Jaguar 234DF Knitlock Overlocker - other than when I was first getting to know it I haven't played with anything other than the straightforward 4 thread overlock stitch, and I rarely have to change any settings at all.
One thing I didn't anticipate when I bought it was the extent to which I would use it on wovens as well as knits.
(BTW, I was the head cheerleader for TSP's 'Overlockers are Evil' group until I bought one...)
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Good choice @Andymat.
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One thing I didn't anticipate when I bought it was the extent to which I would use it on wovens as well as knits.
I don't think I used mine on knit fabrics for quite a few years @Acorn as I bought it almost solely for shortening skirt and trouser hems for me and trousers for O/H. Back in 1989 (when I bought it) there wasn't much in the way of knit fabric around for dressmaking nor patterns IIRC. At only 5'1" most things needed shortening and the machine paid for itself doing those alone as I didn't like the zig zag finish on the regular machine.
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... I didn't like the zig zag finish on the regular machine.
Me neither @Helen M - I was doing French seams whenever possible, but, of course, they're not always the best thing to do. When I made tiered dresses for the goddaughters this summer it was so nice to be able to neaten the gathered seams with the overlocker. I even used four different coloured threads, because the dresses were multicoloured.
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Whatever you have got @Andymat you won't regret it. I've had my fairly basic Janome overlocker for 20 years and it has been great. I use it all the time. To change threads I tie on the new thread and sew it through one at a time as it can be tricky to thread but once I got the hang of it it was fine. When and if it conks out I'll upgrade to something fancier.
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Well done Andymat, now go and have fun exploring just what your overlocker can do - it will certainly enhance your sewing generally.
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Well done on your purchase. I think we sometimes over research so good on you for going and getting one. I'm sure you will be well pleased with it.
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Don't want to rain on your parade @Andymat but if you major in knitted fabric then next thing on your list should be a coverstitch machine. They do make the project look finished off.
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Now why am I looking at the Jaguar overlocker when really there's nothing wrong with my Brother, apart from it's noisy? Think I need to step away from my laptop and go and hang a door :P
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Think I need to step away from my laptop and go and hang a door :P
Gosh, that sounds brutal. I take it the door was guilty.....
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That's a nice looking machine, @Andymat.
Now my advice, as another newbie overlockerer, is to talk to it very nicely and tell it which bits of fabric it's allowed to eat.
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Worst is when you don't keep your eye on the ball and you find you've grabbed fabric you don't want under the knife. You rarely make that mistake again, speaking from experience :cry:
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Worst is when you don't keep your eye on the ball and you find you've grabbed fabric you don't want under the knife. You rarely make that mistake again, speaking from experience :cry:
I remember when someone on Sewing Bee did that. I could have cried for her.
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I said I would update you all...
Well I have finally found the time to play with the new overlocker. It is a bit daunting with the 4 threads. Did try to pull the threads through when I changed colour. But I didn't tie it properly and it just came undone.
So I rethreaded from scratch and broke a needle. Not sure why but I replaced it and it is now running fine.
I had to reduce the tension on the needle threads for the stretchy material I have been using as the stitches didn't seem to stretch. Is this normal? Have fiddled with the tensions and they seem to be better now.
Christmas was a driver for me. I thought I would make some T-Shirts for my niece (13) and nephew (17). So these were the results - mostly done on the overlocker except for the bottom hem (twin needle on sewing machine) and the top-stitching around the hoods.
The stretching while sewing was a bit tricky and not perfect and I had a bit of a hiccup attaching one of the hoods but it doesn't show too much. So they are not perfect but I think not too bad for a first try - I'm pretty pleased with the machine. The finish is so much neater than using the overlocker type stitches on the std machine and a lot quicker.
Overall I'm very pleased with it - it even has a built in thread cutter which I think is great.
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They are great, @Andymat, lucky niece and nephew.
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They look great! I’m sure they’ll be thrilled.
Just remember that side seams don’t need to stretch. There will be some give but you don’t need to have them stretchy. I would think with the Jaguar you would probably be fine with the standard settings.
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They look lovely. You seem to be picking things up very quickly.
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They look great, well done! Very neat crossed over hood edges at the neck too, impressive!
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Don't want to rain on your parade @Andymat but if you major in knitted fabric then next thing on your list should be a coverstitch machine. They do make the project look finished off.
Having used the overlocker, yes, I can see what you mean! It would be useful but I have no space at the moment.
Thank you all for all the encouragement. It has been an interesting journey and is only just begun!