The Sewing Place
Machine Talk => Sewing Machines => Topic started by: Sewbee on September 03, 2017, 09:41:42 AM
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I am about to buy a Bernina 570 but I have to ask ... are Berninas not so popular these days? Some dealers don't even sell them, let alone recommend them (in UK at least). Some say they are still the Rolls Royce of sewing machines but when I do searches on Google related to various aspects of machines, Bernina rarely shows up.
On the other hand, I read about lots of Janome, Brother, and even Singer.
What's happened in the industry in the ten years I haven't sewed?
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My local shop says they don't stock Bernina because their customer service is so bad -<
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My local shop says they don't stock Bernina because their customer service is so bad -<
Doesn't that depend on the dealer, though?
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They say when they ring up Brother or Janome for advice, queries, they get by far the best customer service and satisfaction. Also the quickest delivery of spares. Bernina and Pfaff not so much -< I only know what they told me -<
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I think the Japanese machines are just as good, if not better, and have a much more attractive price. Bernina rely heavily on their reputation; historically their machines were Swiss manufactured and regarded as bombproof, but the majority are manufactured elsewhere now - whilst still charging the earth for them!
I'd go for a Juki any time. ;)
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Here the customer service is still very good, machines are reliable and I haven't heard of owners regretting their choice. The main factor is usually the price; you can get a Janome or Brother model with similar functions for less. I guess customer service is very dependant on the individuals we deal with and it will vary regardless of brand.
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I've heard excellent things about Juki machines, and Jaguar too (they manufacture a lot for other people). I gather Bernina manufacture in china/ Taiwan etc, to keep the cost down but each run is overseen by a bernina trained QA person, how true I don't know...
But the more important question Sewbee.... have you considered an older bernina? The reputation on them is completely solid, as many vintage machines are!
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I have to add that only a few of the Bernettes have been given that rave reviews. Most people like them, but like always it has to do with price in relation to quality. They are not worse machines than the average sewing machine in the same price range, but we expect a lot from Bernina. The 570 has the stitch regulator, and lots of buttonholes, and it's spot on what I'm interested in. There's a lot of generalisation and mix up of info when it comes to reputation, but I would listen to first hand info on a machine and I would test sew before I spend the money since it's quite an investment.
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I've heard excellent things about Juki machines, and Jaguar too (they manufacture a lot for other people). I gather Bernina manufacture in china/ Taiwan etc, to keep the cost down but each run is overseen by a bernina trained QA person, how true I don't know...
But the more important question Sewbee.... have you considered an older bernina? The reputation on them is completely solid, as many vintage machines are!
Yes, I have. I have had Berninas all my life so the dealer is also looking out for a good 930 for me. I used to have one and it was outstanding.
Having said that I still want a new machine. I used to have the 930 and a computerised machine years ago. I like the extra features that come with them.
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I think most of the Berninas still are made in Switzerland. I know some parts are made in Asia, as well as overlockers and the Bernettes. Bernina costs a bit more for a reason, and it's not only because of wages in Europe; the testing and quality control are different, the factory is run differently. I think each Bernina still comes with a stitch sample from factory, and I don't think anyone else do that anymore. There's will always be advantages to the different brands and models, and there are lots of good machines available. From what I know, I still hold Bernina in high regard.
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I think most of the Berninas still are made in Switzerland. I know some parts are made in Asia, as well as overlockers and the Bernettes. Bernina costs a bit more for a reason, and it's not only because of wages in Europe; the testing and quality control are different, the factory is run differently. I think each Bernina still comes with a stitch sample from factory, and I don't think anyone else do that anymore. There's will always be advantages to the different brands and models, and there are lots of good machines available. From what I know, I still hold Bernina in high regard.
According to my dealer Berninas are made in Thailand but in a factory with Swiss management.
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I keep reading conflicting info on this too, the factory in Steckborn is still up and running as far as I know. I know they work with partners in Asia and have done for years, but I don't know all the details. Either way, a Bernina turned out to catch my attention when test sewing between various models a few years a go, it was when the new 700 series was new. I liked it, but they just cost to much for my use. I still think they are better than most when it comes to quality, but don't get me wrong, I'm not disregarding any other brand becuse of it. There's always something; price, personal preferances, what we are used, features we look for... You have to test sew before you decide; we tend to live with these machines for years.
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Berninas aren't made in Switzerland like they used to be. Not sure if the TOL ones are. Bernettes aren't actually made by them and are completely different to a Bernina. Their overlockers are made by someone else too.
Bernina like Husqvarna have their own factories abroad and are in control of the production.
As said, the reason they are not so popular is price and value for money. And accessories are very expensive. You get so much more with a Brother or Janome. And having used and demonstrated so many different machines I would also suggest that Berninas are not very user friendly.
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I agree in part with what OSS says, the Berninas are very expensive compared to Janome and Brother, but having used all three brands in recent years I would choose a Bernina every time. I would love a TOL one but finances won't allow and my latest is a 350PE. I also have a 1008 which is a superb workhorse and both will sew through anything I have asked of them without any problems, unlike either of the other two brands. I don't agree that they are not user friendly, although I don't know enough about the TOL ones to have any opinions on them.
Have fun with the 570 Sewbee, and know that I am very jealous! 8)
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I have a Bernina 570 which I bought just over a year ago and I am a great fan of Berninas. This is my third and my two daughters have the others. Previously I have owned a Brother and a Toyota which I wore out.
I love the 570 and also bought the embroidery unit which I need to play more with.
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I have a bernina 550qe. I've had it about five years. It's a lovely machine.
It came with a stitch regulator and a walking foot.
I'd fully recommend it.
I don't have experience of others to compare it to.
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I keep reading conflicting info on this too, the factory in Steckborn is still up and running as far as I know. I know they work with partners in Asia and have done for years, but I don't know all the details. Either way, a Bernina turned out to catch my attention when test sewing between various models a few years a go, it was when the new 700 series was new. I liked it, but they just cost to much for my use. I still think they are better than most when it comes to quality, but don't get me wrong, I'm not disregarding any other brand becuse of it. There's always something; price, personal preferances, what we are used, features we look for... You have to test sew before you decide; we tend to live with these machines for years.
The dealer told me they are all made in Thailand except for the 800 series and above which are made in Switzerland. However, we didn't discuss the Bernettes.
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I, too, am a Bernina fan. In fact I still have and use my own Elna SU bought back in 1975 which was at the time a Swiss owned company from Geneva. Also in 1975 my mother bought a Bernina 830 Record, a Swiss made machine. I inherited this machine, and whilst my mother had used this nowhere near as much as I have used it, and I tend to use this machine as my go to machine for daily sewing. Both the Elna and the Bernina 830 record are heavy metal bodied machines. Both produce really beautiful stitches every time, are quiet and a joy to use.
Then on a whim I fancied an embroidery machine, and as luck would have it a shop was closing down and a machine the Bernina Artista 200 machine with embroidery unit was an unsold part exchange model. The mechanic from this shop moved premises and continues to sell machines but no longer sells fabric and haberdashery. So a question of being in the right place at the right time. This machine is I believe another Swiss made machine, it has a plastic casing but is equally as heavy as my other machines, and again the stitch quality is superb.
I also happen to have two Bernina Overlockers, one has the coverstitch facility. Again both machines have a plastic casing but are heavy and do not dance around when in use. Whilst these were not made in Switzerland they were made strictly under Swiss supervision, and the difference in using these as opposed to other brands is very noticeable both in the sound they make and the stitch quality.
Over the years since I bought my Elna so back in 1975) come Christmas and birthday I asked if I could have feet and attachments for my machine (I did the buying of these) and then again when I bought the Bernina Artista I have been receiving feet and attachments as presents (again I do the buying) and as a result I have a lovely selection of feet and accessories for my machines - yes even the overlockers. I tend to buy my accessories for the Bernina's directly from Bernina themselves, i.e. Bogod - the warehouse is down in Cardiff and the team down there are really helpful and quick.
Perhaps the cost of servicing these machines is on the high side but it is really worth the money. I do keep the machines covered when not in use and am always cleaning and oiling them and it is so important to keep on changing the needle and again I only use Bernina or Schmetz needles - nothing else (Schmetz actually make the needles for Bernina). I also only used a branded thread Guterman on the sewing machines, and as far as overlocking threads are concerned I now use Amann thread, the Belgian one I liked the company no longer exists which is a shame.
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I have a Bernina 570 which I bought just over a year ago and I am a great fan of Berninas. This is my third and my two daughters have the others. Previously I have owned a Brother and a Toyota which I wore out.
I love the 570 and also bought the embroidery unit which I need to play more with.
I have one on order because I have had Bernina all my life, but never a newer, computerised one. I did some research on Google and I was amazed that many dealers don't sell them. I phoned a few of them and they told me you get more for your money with Janome, Brother, etc. While that's probably true I believed that Bernina has a much better stitching precision. Apparently, Janome's stitching quality is just as good.
The main issue they had is that the newer models tend to break down (circuit boards are dreadful quality apparently) and the repairs cost a fortune. Breakdowns are apparently frequent after they are about five years old. I asked if the Janome and Brother had as many repairs and they told me definitely not. They said these two brands are made in Japan and in particular do not have the circuit board problems.
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I've heard excellent things about Juki machines, and Jaguar too (they manufacture a lot for other people). I gather Bernina manufacture in china/ Taiwan etc, to keep the cost down but each run is overseen by a bernina trained QA person, how true I don't know...
But the more important question Sewbee.... have you considered an older bernina? The reputation on them is completely solid, as many vintage machines are!
Yes, I may be on the lookout for a 930 but not sure yet.
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Only the (new) 800 series are made in Steckborn, all the rest is manufactured in Thailand in a Swiss factory. All the Bernina overlockers are made by Juki with a Bernina badge on (wish I'd have known this earlier
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I have a bernina 550qe. I've had it about five years. It's a lovely machine.
It came with a stitch regulator and a walking foot.
I'd fully recommend it.
I don't have experience of others to compare it to.
Thanks, Fajita. That's good to know. I haven't bought a machine in such a long time that all feedback is beneficial.
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Bernina support, never needed it.
Take it back to shop for annual service. That's it.
(Touch wood).
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It was the quietness and firm feel I notice in the Bernina too, the other's felt slightly less. It stitched buttonholes and did top stitch thread both in the bobbin and top with out misbehaving. How a model handles top stitch thread is must when test sewing, some are hard work to adjust (mostly bobbin tension) others just can't do it. I'm guessing most top models can. I'm thinking of the 500 and 700 series as top models, because before the 800 existed they were. I never really tested it for the challenging fabrics like densely woven velvet or corduroy, cotton duck.
I don't feel I am very demanding of a machine, I get by on a simple Singer 201. It does all the basic work except zigzag, overlock along edges and stretchy seams. I have a swiss zigzagger I use as a walking foot when it's needed, not the same ease as a built in equivalent, but it works well. I don't feel my equipment gives me any particular advantages over new; but it works for anything I can fit under the presser foot and I hardly worry about working the machine too hard when stitching through odd things like plastic and cardboard.
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All the Bernina overlockers are made by Juki with a Bernina badge on (wish I'd have known this earlier
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As far as modern Berninas going wrong, the circuit boards do often seem to be a problem and if one goes it can be prohibitively expensive to fix.
...well, that's a remark you can throw at any computerised machine regardless of price and quality. They have guarantees though, here 5 years are common on reputable models.
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...well, that's a remark you can throw at any computerised machine regardless of price and quality. They have guarantees though, here 5 years are common on reputable models.
Not quite. It's based on what I see in my job.
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...well, that's a remark you can throw at any computerised machine regardless of price and quality. They have guarantees though, here 5 years are common on reputable models.
I asked the dealer about the circuit boards of other brands of machines and was told they do not break down nearly so often because they are made in a Japan. He was usually speaking of Janomr and Brother.
Having said that a big part of me still wants a Bernina 570qe but I have to ask myself how much would I be adding to the cost when it breaks down. Apparently the circuit boards are extremely expensive i.e. £180
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I am also a Bernina fan. I just love the way they sound and the stitch quality.
My first was an 830 Record - I had gone to the shop to buy a new Janome and saw it on the bench. I just had to try it, just so I could say I had sewn on a Bernina!! I did try new Janomes as planned but the ease of use and the samples I had made soon told me which was best.
Since then I got a good price on one of the last 550 QE. I had the course which was mediocre and they could not help with an issue I was having with invisible zips. I spoke to David Drummond and one of his assistants called me back and talked me through what I needed to do.
Janomes do the job and do it well but for me Bernina just do it better!
Had a Brother overlocker which worked but I hated it's clunkiness and noise and the motor seemed reluctant to get going.
Sewing for me should be a pleasure and I want to use machines that help me do the job without fighting or causing stress.
I was told by an engineer that all computerised machines should be plugged in and switched on every month or there can be expensive problems
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My main machine is a Pfaff Expression 2, which is around 9 years old. A little trouble with buttonholes recently set me off about getting a cheaper machine just for buttonholes. I kicked that into touch as I needed a new washing machine in a hurry. It has set me thinking about its replacement though.
I have a small Bernina 215, which does do a lovely stitch and I think has about 11 in total but no automatic buttonhole. I had thought of getting the next model up the 330, which will be just enough if not more than what I need. I also hovered round a Juki F300 but even that has too many stitches for what I need.
Weighing up the pros and cons I suspect I'm going with the Bernina, if it is as good as the 215 I will be happy. Probably the main thing against the Bernina is the cost of them. I had Janome Memory Craft 7000, a truly wonderful machine, but wasted on me, but Janomes do give good value for money.
So yes, I still think they are the Rolls Royce of machines, just sometimes a bit unaffordable for many.
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I bought a Bernina 710 a couple of years ago and it now sits on my side cabinet in the sewing room and gets used as a second machine. I have replaced it with a Juki TL2010Q and I would throw myself out of a ten storey window before I would ever part with it. The Bernina...with its BSR and dual feed...meh...make me an offer!
Servicing costs are the same as for other machines but not all sewing techs here are "qualified" to work on the series 7 and 8's so that can be a problem. I did need a circuit board replaced last year and I have had to put the machine in for fiddly little repairs like timing going out from time to time that have irritated the pants off me. The machine seems to tread a very fine line of "happy-to-sew-for-you today", and whether this is a common thing with most computerised machines or just mine I don't know...I don't have any sewing friends to compare machines with.
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The new overlockers are no longer made by Juki, which is a shame. I believe it was something to do with cutting costs.
My coverstitch, Bernina L220, was the twin of the Juki MCS-1500 but has sadly been removed from the Bernina range and replaced by a Bernette coverstitch - their budget brand. The L220 is fabulous but if I had to replace it I'd go for Juki over a Bernette any day.
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I agree about Juki overlocker. I am not ready to buy one yet - about to furnish my new sewing room so I can set up my new Bernina sewing machine in there :) but whenever I am it will be Juki.
I wish I knew what Bernina is doing with their overlocker line! Jaguar makes them now and I've heard they are not as good as when Juki made them.
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I wish I knew what Bernina is doing with their overlocker line! Jaguar makes the, now and I've heard they are not as good as when Juki made them.
Interesting, didn't know that. I've got an old coverstitch, the one before the new L220, and it is a cow to use, I could cheerfully chuck it out the window. Fortunately I also have the new Janome Coverstitch which is entirely the opposite.
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I think the Japanese machines are just as good, if not better, and have a much more attractive price. Bernina rely heavily on their reputation; historically their machines were Swiss manufactured and regarded as bombproof, but the majority are manufactured elsewhere now - whilst still charging the earth for them!
I'd go for a Juki any time. ;)
Ditto, Ditto, Ditto
Trading on past reputation and charging through the nose to do it.
There are just 2 older/vintage Bernina models I'd be interested in owning but having tried three different modern Berninas (1 electric and 2 high end computerised) last October, compared with the Janome and Juki machines I tried at the same time, I really could not find anything that could justify the fuss and definitely nothing that could explain the hike in cost. I was pleased the Bernina's didn't stack up against the others I tried because my Bernina service centre would be a place in Manchester and the turnaround time and standard of service doesn't meet what I expect. This is based on the experience of 2 friends who owned Berninas, one of whom sold off her Bernina 740 and now uses a computerised Pfaff.
My choices came down to Juki or Janome, both of which I find very intuitive to use. In the end I chose the Janome because I can drive to the main Janome service centre at Stockport. I have always had excellent help, advice and service from Peter and others at the service centre.
For a long, long time, I really rated the Bernina 1150MDA overlocker and still do, it's an excellent machine (and was made by Juki).
However, if I ever need to replace the BL Evolution I use currently, it will be with one of the Juki overlockers.
Bernina machines are good, but there is an awful lot of hype. A good dose of realism is healthy.
Any of the higher end machines across all the brands (except perhaps for 1) have a similar high level of performance. Machines made by different brands do feel different to use and at that level, it's all about how the machine feels and responds under your fingers. That's what matters more than the 'Brand' and the marketing hype.
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I have yet to come across a Bernina sewing machine, apart from the old metal bodied ones, that I like at all. I've tried many and don't find them at all user friendly. Brother are probably the easiest to use. If you can use one, you can probably upgrade and recognise buttons and functions on a higher spec machine. With Bernina you have to learn a completely new machine. But there is a huge amount of snobbery surrounding them. Many people will ONLY buy them and won't even consider an alternative. I find it highly amusing :devil: Some of the problems stem from sewing teachers who are telling students that a Bernina is a must. But then I have known sewing teachers recommending Singers. :o :o. Mmmmmmmmm
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Bernina machines are good, but there is an awful lot of hype. A good dose of realism is healthy.
After saying I would go for another Bernina, I have to admit that recently I was looking at a Juki. Up to my niece buying one for her business a few years ago, I had never heard of them. I was looking at this:
https://www.franknutt.co.uk/sewing-machines/used-sewing-machines/used-juki-hzl-f300
More than I would ever need but I got a 'fancy'. Fortunately a large vet bill kiboshed that idea, that and the thought I might have to spend on a new laptop. :fish:
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:o I’ve just gone and bought one! Buyers remorse already.... a 350 special edition. Please tell me I’m not mad.
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You're not mad. Welcome to the bernina club
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Nope! Not mad at all. I bought a 570qe a few months ago and just bought the 1150mda ex demo serger (only one I could find) last week!
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I agree - not mad at all. When I went to buy my new machine I immediately told the dealer I didn't want a Bernina because I didn't like the look of them and I also didn't like the hype surrounding them. After trying almost every other machine in the shop - what did I come out with? Yup, you've guessed - a Bernina - and I haven't regretted it. I've used it almost every day for over a year and it hasn't put a foot wrong, whether dressmaking or P&Q. :loveit:
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I guess there's always something that can be improved upon, but I still think Bernina is about as good as it gets. Don't mind the critics too much, the competition between brands comes off as carpet buying in Kairo; how ever nice the quality and good the price is, someone will tell you, you payed way too much for it ;- )
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… I still think Bernina is about as good as it gets... how ever nice the quality and good the price is, someone will tell you, you payed way too much for it ;- )
I wonder if you're thinking about new machines or vintage arrow? I'd certainly agree about their vintage, speaking as an owner (and regular user) of one 1020 & two 1130s but I am absolutely appalled by the cost of their range with dual feed to the extent I didn't even consider trying one when buying my Pfaff P5 five years ago.
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We have lots of Berninas here from the vintage 530 to the 820 and 760. We love them! Of course Pfaff are also excellent too...
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I wonder if you're thinking about new machines or vintage arrow? ...but I am absolutely appalled by the cost of their range with dual feed to the extent I didn't even consider trying one when buying my Pfaff P5 five years ago.
The price is the only thing that has prevented me from buying a new Bernina with the dual feed and stitch regulator. They just cost too much for the things I do with it, and there's always something I need and want to spend money on. After a test sewing in a shop a few years ago I went home, cleaned and oiled the old 730 Record and was rather surprised to notice how well in compared to new machines. Since then I noticed the old Singer 201 and it's my favorite for most type of work. I haven't considered bying a new machine since, but I have tried a few.