The Sewing Place

Reception => Hi, I'm new... => Topic started by: Gavin e on October 12, 2020, 21:57:00 PM

Title: I haven’t even bought a needle yet....
Post by: Gavin e on October 12, 2020, 21:57:00 PM
Hello everyone.  I’m new here and a total novice when it comes to sewing - my previous experience consists solely of button repairs.

I’m here because I have a couple of major sewing projects which I need completed - both of which will cost a small fortune if I have to pay someone else to do the work - and I would like genuine opinions from people who know more than I about my prospects of doing the work myself.

I’m patient, quite skilled with my hands, willing to watch whatever I need on the internet, and a methodical worker who is willing to accept that the job will take months rather than days... 

However...

The work I’m looking to complete is a complete re upholstery of a boat seating area consisting of 19 removable sections, followed by cutting and creating a new rear canopy for the boat in marine grade canvas with heavy duty vinyl windows etc etc.

I would love advice re machine requirements for what I am sure will be heavy duty work, (Something simple to use with enough punch to do the job, but budget friendly), and also advice on whether I’m mad to even consider trying to do it myself - my wife certainly does so feel free to tell me she’s correct!

I would also appreciate guidance on what section on here would be best to post my questions about these things, as I’m not sure what category I should go for.  I could then post a few photos to give people a better idea of what I have in mind.

So that’s it.  I guess that if you tell me to give it a go I’ll be on here with a million questions about all sorts of things while I set about learning a new skill, so be warned....

Thanks. Gavin

Title: Re: I haven’t even bought a needle yet....
Post by: hernibs on October 12, 2020, 23:06:48 PM
Evening Gavin - welcome to the forum and my best wishes for all your future sewing endeavours....and boy there will be lots of challenges coming your way.  There are folk on here who have done similar things so I will leave it up to them to encourage/discourage you as and when they arise in the morning, they are all mostly early risers.....I am not.
Title: Re: I haven’t even bought a needle yet....
Post by: Ellabella on October 13, 2020, 00:03:08 AM
Welcome from me too Gavin.

I do like someone with ambition.

The seating sounds doable, there is lots of advice available both on here and on the internet.

The difficulty with the canopy as far as I can understand will be fitting large areas of thick fabric under a machine. Perhaps you need to look for something industrial.

There are lots of peeps on here that have a wide range of experience and I’m sure someone will be along later today with much better advice than I can give.

One important thing to remember is that we like lots of photos and progress reports.  We will cheer you on all the way.
Title: Re: I haven’t even bought a needle yet....
Post by: Lachica on October 13, 2020, 00:10:22 AM
Welcome @Gavin e . We used to have a little cabin cruiser & I recovered the seats & made new curtains. A standard sewing machine will do this fine unless you choose particularly tough fabric or buy a cheap ricketty machine. The fabric on our boat had gone mouldy, probably because the underseat lockers were full of water. (No, we didn't look under there before buying :scream: ) I prised the fabric off, the wooden bases were fine & so, to my surprise, was the foam. I bought 100% polyester upholstery fabric recommended for caravans & boats for the new covers so it couldn't go mouldy. Used the old covers to make templates (brown paper) then made things more difficult for myself by making contrast piping. I'd recommend using plain fabric as pattern matching complicates things. Piping isn't difficult but takes more time. A lot more time in my case as I cut bias strips & covered piping cord. I think it was around 40m I made.

Re the waterproof cockpit cover: I replaced the 3 pvc windows and one zip in ours. I bought a second hand 40 year old Pfaff for £100 to do this as I have an expensive new Pfaff which has the punching power but I didn't want to risk damaging it and paying several hundred £ to have it repaired. The cover was very unwieldy & took DH helping to feed it through the machine. The heavy canvas takes up a lot of space, you need a big harp space on the machine & would need to work out the order of sewing to make sure the fabric to the right of the needle will pass through the harp. I also had to buy special thread, much thicker than standard, but the old Pfaff handled it in the bobbin fine. I don't know if all machines would handle this thick thread. I suppose you might be able to buy a sailmaking machine if you're really set on doing it this yourself.
Title: Re: I haven’t even bought a needle yet....
Post by: Renegade Sewist on October 13, 2020, 00:18:49 AM
@Gavin e , welcome. Lovely to have you here.

I do believe you've married a very smart woman.  :)

A few photos would be a great idea as it'll show what you are wanting to replicate. When my OH (other half) bought his 2nd boat, there's a small fleet now, I politely declined from doing any of that. OK, probably not politely at all. You are talking a big project for an experienced Sewist. If the seating is flat panels or tuck and roll, if there is piping and how much or none at all, if there is significant sewing for each and a lot of odd shapes or heavy use of a staple gun will all make a difference.

One thing to ask yourself is if you'll be ok with functional but not necessarily professional looking results. If so, have at it. But if you're really fussy gain some sewing experience first. I'd suggest starting with some nice gear bags to haul things to and from the boat.


One tip: if you'll be using any staples use marine grade stainless steel and an electric staple gun. The beautiful red and white tuck and roll on Red Nelly, a lovely 1950s runabout  had just been redone when we bought her. Unfortunately the upholstery shop used regular galvanized staples and regular plywood, not marine grade. The front seat started disintegrating after a couple of years.
Title: Re: I haven’t even bought a needle yet....
Post by: BrendaP on October 13, 2020, 00:20:20 AM
Welcome to TSP

It sounds as though the project you are wanting to do is just straight stitch sewing but heavyweight and maybe with a bit of stapling/tacking (nails) involved.

For that I suggest a vintage machine.  Singer 201 model is top with 66 or 99 close behind.  They take bog standard machine needles (not all vintage models do) and easy to obtain bobbins and will sew through multiple layers of denim or canvas.

My introduction to machine sewing was way back in the 1950s helping my dad to make a very large tent which provided many family holidays.  Dad was like you; had never sewn anything but was good with his hands and had a methodical brain.  To him it was 3-D geometry and working out the exact sizes of all the pieces which were needed and making the best use of the fabric, which was probably only 36" or maybe 42" wide.  There were plenty of long felled seams in it and that's where my help came in; turning the hand crank!  Electric models are easier to use, but do check the wiring if you go for a vintage machine, some of them can be lethal. :o
Title: Re: I haven’t even bought a needle yet....
Post by: Gavin e on October 13, 2020, 08:04:48 AM
Thank you for some fantastic replies, and since they are rather positive I’m pretty sure I shall be having a go at this! 

It won’t be too soon as I think it will take me a while to get my head around all of the bits I will need - I’ve been researching this for a few weeks so already know I will need special threads and tapes etc to cope with the environment, I just don’t quite know which I should buy...

Here are a few photos to give an idea of what I need to replace.

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Assuming I can locate a suitable machine, I am considering making new dodgers ( the canvas surround above the canopy in pic 4) first, as a way of getting to know the machine.  They are all flat and straight to work on so will probably be the ‘easiest’ and least technical part of the project, but they are made of canvas. 

If the feeling here is that working with the more lightweight material for the seating would be a better starting off point then I will be guided by you.  Most of the seating is only sewn in a couple of places and then stapled to plywood backing, so it may well be easier.

Thanks for the machine advice, and the stainless steel staples idea - I hadn’t thought of that.  Whilst I have no great desire to rush out and spend hundreds of pounds on kit, I should possibly mention that the various quotes we have for this work add up to around £6000.00 plus - so I do realise that this project won’t come cheap and I’m prepared to get what I need to do a good job.


Title: Re: I haven’t even bought a needle yet....
Post by: Ploshkin on October 13, 2020, 08:14:15 AM
I would definitely recommend starting with the seats because the fabric will be much easier to handle.  Use some old curtains to make a mock up or two to start.
Title: Re: I haven’t even bought a needle yet....
Post by: jintie on October 13, 2020, 08:17:10 AM
Is this your boat? Looks ok as it is....
Title: Re: I haven’t even bought a needle yet....
Post by: Gavin e on October 13, 2020, 08:34:50 AM
Yes that’s our boat, and while a lot of people do say the tartan looks ok my wife is not one of them....  so that is not an argument I am likely to win.

The canopy is still ok, but is starting to fray and has a few developing issues.  It’ll certainly do for at least one more season, but I am assuming it’s going to take me quite some time to complete a new one so want to get a head start and have it ready for when required...
Title: Re: I haven’t even bought a needle yet....
Post by: jintie on October 13, 2020, 08:42:08 AM
As the tartan seems undamaged, you could leave it in place as an underlayer.
Title: Re: I haven’t even bought a needle yet....
Post by: Efemera on October 13, 2020, 08:56:30 AM
As BrendaP said get yourself a vintage Singer 201.
Title: Re: I haven’t even bought a needle yet....
Post by: Sewingsue on October 13, 2020, 09:26:07 AM
I can see why one might question the work as the current covers look in good condition, but if you don't like the fabric there is rather a lot of it.

At least it sounds as if you have come to the right place for advice (from others, not my area so I will just sit back and watch).
Title: Re: I haven’t even bought a needle yet....
Post by: BrendaP on October 13, 2020, 10:40:44 AM
Definitely start with the cushion covers.  Sewing plastic on any machine is tricky!

Unpick each cushion (one at a time so as not to get muddled up) and use the existing fabric as a pattern.  It looks as though you would do well to get yourself a power staple gun as well as a sewing machine.

Title: Re: I haven’t even bought a needle yet....
Post by: Kenora on October 13, 2020, 10:54:14 AM
Welcome from me too. Will be interesting to watch your project develop. :)
Title: Re: I haven’t even bought a needle yet....
Post by: Ohsewsimple on October 13, 2020, 12:19:21 PM
Welcome to the forum.  Gosh that’s an ambitious project.  You’re right, you won’t win the argument about the covers with the wife.   :)

Not my area of expertise but definitely agree you need an old metal body machine for this. 
I look forward to seeing the progress.  Good luck. 
Title: Re: I haven’t even bought a needle yet....
Post by: Lilian on October 13, 2020, 12:37:13 PM
Welcome to TSP @Gavin e look forward to seeing how you progress  :drink:  :vintage:
Title: Re: I haven’t even bought a needle yet....
Post by: Lachica on October 13, 2020, 15:56:57 PM
Nice boat. A tad bigger than ours! Good news, the cushion covers are nice & simple. I wouldn't want that tartan either. Our seat cushions were all odd shaped, a big curved -edged triangle fitted into the bow. Yours will be much simpler, particularly without piping. I second using stainless staples.  Good idea to replace one cover at a time, then the seats can still be used.

The dodgers will be a good starting point, much, much easier than the cockpit cover and will give you a good feel for the machine. There's a reason new cockpit covers are so expensive!
Title: Re: I haven’t even bought a needle yet....
Post by: Gavin e on October 13, 2020, 16:50:51 PM
To keep this simple and since my dog knows as much about sewing as I currently do, it seemed like a good idea to follow the advice given and not confuse myself with too many decisions if I can avoid them - so I thought I’d settle on the Singer 201 as my model of choice.

Then I looked on ebay....

Wow there are a lot of them.  Black ones. Silver ones. Machines with lots of bits.  Some are older than my granny, with others covering the years of various family members.  Some are thirty quid and others are three hundred....

Help...

What do I need?  I’m assuming that I want to avoid the cheap ones since there must be a reason that they are a bargain, but how on earth do I figure out which is best suited to my needs? Who knew there were so many machines for stabbing tiny holes into clothes....
Title: Re: I haven’t even bought a needle yet....
Post by: sewingj on October 13, 2020, 18:01:00 PM
Calling @Brenda  and @Roger
Title: Re: I haven’t even bought a needle yet....
Post by: BrendaP on October 13, 2020, 18:36:48 PM
@Roger is more knowledgeable than me, but:

Be wary of Ebay!  Especially if the seller says they don't know anything about their sewing machine (or sowing machine or sawing machine). 

Price of a decent 201 should be around £50-£100 depending on how many extras are with it.

Use the ISMACs website to look up the serial number to confirm that it is a 201
http://ismacs.net/singer_sewing_machine_company/serial-numbers/singer-sewing-machine-serial-number-database.html (http://ismacs.net/singer_sewing_machine_company/serial-numbers/singer-sewing-machine-serial-number-database.html)

Until the eaarly 1950s they were all black, cast iron and weigh a ton.  The mark 2 model came out about 1952, and is either black ot tan and  cream with a slightly more square shape and with an aluminium body but still very heavy.  Any other colour has been resprayed
Title: Re: I haven’t even bought a needle yet....
Post by: Surest1tch on October 13, 2020, 20:08:34 PM
Welcome Gavin, wow that's some project
Title: Re: I haven’t even bought a needle yet....
Post by: Roger on October 13, 2020, 21:05:32 PM
Hi @Gavin,

Thanks Brenda!

I would suggest either the Singer 15 or the 201 - they're both very available machines and tough use standard needles and bobbins and parts and spares are widely available as is advice. I would probably look on local Gumtree or Ebay. the reason for this is they are ferociously heavy so you'll save a lot on PnP and you can see the machine yourself. I think you are looking for a workhorse, so you can choose one which is a little battered (faded decals and enamel wear) rather than being prissy about a collectors piece.

I would probably look for the cast iron model of the 201 and the 15 only comes in cast iron they will be heavier and give you better stability when you use them, especially with heavier fabrics.
the 201 has a larger 'harp' space - the area between the bed and the neck of the machine, which might be helpful when handling large pieces of ridged fabric.
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the cast iron 201k; most have roughly the same format the real tell tale feature for me is the round plate with the stitch length lever in it
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the 15k - again theres a lot of these but they all have roughly the same format they were also popularly knocked off by japan and there are lot of later ones of these in different colours. Japanese manuafacturing was very good and some people say they're as almost as good as the originals.
the tell tale on these for me is the bottle shaped neck.

there are other makes and models that will do nicely but they can be scarce - old pfaffs for example - Pfaff 30s are like tanks. Crestas can be brutal, but singers are plentiful and more likely to be a bargain!

If you want me to have a look at any gumtree finds just let me know, but I can't promise a swift turn around.

As an aside are you anywhere near Norfolk? I have a 201 that works but could do with a good home.


Title: Re: I haven’t even bought a needle yet....
Post by: Gavin e on October 13, 2020, 23:49:55 PM
Well I’ve been on here for one day and I’d like to say a real and genuine thank you to all who have posted.

I still know next to nothing, but due to your really detailed replies and the effort you have put in to help me  I really feel that I’m no longer totally lost and wondering where to start.

It may take me a while to find a suitable machine, but hey, I have plenty of time to get the project started.  (If you really want to find a new home for your machine Roger I may be interested - its a bit of a trek from Wokingham but may well be worth it to know I have located a reliable tool?)

I realise that my chosen projects will be somewhat challenging, but I like a puzzle and I’m sure I’ll enjoy working out how best to tackle this one. 

I guess that this ‘hello’ section of the forum is not the place for long term discussion so I’ve had a look through the other sections but I’m not sure where I should post for updates/questions about my future progress.  Any suggestions?   

Once again, thanks for all of your help, it’s much appreciated.

Gavin
Title: Re: I haven’t even bought a needle yet....
Post by: wrenkins on October 14, 2020, 08:15:46 AM
Who knew there were so many machines for stabbing tiny holes into clothes....

We did!  :laughing:

Good luck with this...it's going to be great!
You could start your own diary thread to chart your progress and let the nosey parkers interested parties follow your every move or the House Beautiful board would probably come close... I suspect most people just use the 'unread topics' function so we'll find you wherever you post. Up you'll pop in a swathe of canvas!

Welcome to the forum! We'll have you bankrupt kitted out in no time. :ninja:
Title: Re: I haven’t even bought a needle yet....
Post by: jintie on October 14, 2020, 09:51:38 AM
I vaguely recall a guide to sewing raincoats that said that you need to waterproof the sewn seams with tape and glue - could you put the canopy together just with strong glue and tape?
Title: Re: I haven’t even bought a needle yet....
Post by: HenriettaMaria on October 14, 2020, 10:26:11 AM
@jintie I would think not because a boat gets a lot of wind and twisting forces that could pull such seams apart.  However, I would definitely consider using the tape & glue idea on the inside of the finished stitched seam, as is done in tents as this stops rain and spray coming through the stitch holes.
Title: Re: I haven’t even bought a needle yet....
Post by: Goth Gardiner on October 14, 2020, 10:28:13 AM
I vaguely remember that a work colleague got use of a machine where his boat was moored to mend something heavy duty in his boat. My memory is a bit hazy but I think it might have been a canopy and the machine borrowed from the chandlery.

Title: Re: I haven’t even bought a needle yet....
Post by: Sewbusy on October 14, 2020, 14:43:24 PM
@Gavin e  If an hours trip along the M4 is possible I have a Singer 201k hand crank in working order if that would be of use.
Title: Re: I haven’t even bought a needle yet....
Post by: Lachica on October 14, 2020, 14:59:05 PM
@Gavin e I'm also in Wokingham. I don't have a 201 for sale but am happy to help you get going on one or look over a local machine if you find one for sale. For your upholstery I'd go for an older Pfaff, Janome, or similar as you won't need so much punch power. That might be easier to find, then get the cushions covered while you look for the 201. They can be resold without losing cash if chosen wisely in the first place. Where's your boat moored?
Title: Re: I haven’t even bought a needle yet....
Post by: Lachica on October 14, 2020, 15:10:17 PM
@Gavin e I just had a quick look on eBay for machines within 5 miles of me & found a Swift starting at £10 which looks like a Singer clone - Roger would advise whether it would be a substitute for a 201. There are several other old Singers at less than £100 too, would need to check the serial number to find model number.
Title: Re: I haven’t even bought a needle yet....
Post by: Lachica on October 14, 2020, 15:18:29 PM
There's a Jones at £70 BIN which would do fine, in Wokingham, and a Singer 317 in a table starting at £75 in Reading. I'd think either of these would manage canvas. I can't link them but there are several which would do for your cushions. NOT the 507 with crumbled gears though.
Title: Re: I haven’t even bought a needle yet....
Post by: Gavin e on October 14, 2020, 18:03:13 PM
Thank you so much Lachica.  That’s so helpful.

I’ve found the machines you have spotted, and would quite happily go for either - my only concern being that I was thinking today (always a danger) and I’m wondering if I need to take the vinyl windows into account when looking at a machine. 

How much oomph will I need to punch through two layers of heavy duty material with a filling of the vinyl sandwiched between them?  Does anyone have experience of this?

Maybe I just need to buy the machine and a small section of vinyl to have a go with before starting  to buy any of the bulk quantities I will need for the project.  I might find that anything other than an industrial machine may not be able to cope with the work I have in mind?

And thanks Sewbusy, but I’m already worried that I won’t have enough arms for the job without having to handwind the machine too... 
Title: Re: I haven’t even bought a needle yet....
Post by: Lachica on October 14, 2020, 18:56:50 PM
@Gavin e my thinking was to get a machine to make your cushion covers on first, as punch power won't be such an issue & you'll be able to practise.  Get one for under £100, finish the cushions then try it on canvas for the flat windbreak panels. If it won't manage, sell the machine for about what you paid. Then look for a 201 if that's what you're set on. I sold my old F&R from 1981 for only £30, a few years ago, that would have punched through canvas. Sold my mum's old Jones around the same time, that would have been as good even though 20 years older. I have an old Bernina which would probably do the job but it won't have a big enough harp & it's not for sale. Most of the older machines with metal bodies will cope.

As I said before, I bought a Pfaff 1229 to mend our hood. Probably around 40-50 years old. Pfaffs have IDT which is v helpful and it had plenty of oomph to go through doubled vinyl plus thick pvc window. Paid £100, sold it for £120 after use. I think you'd be wise to go electric, hand crank might well have the power but you'll need both hands to wrestle that hood fabric. If you get an old metal bodied electric machine do get the electrics checked (at least PAT tested) before use.
Title: Re: I haven’t even bought a needle yet....
Post by: HenriettaMaria on October 15, 2020, 21:13:58 PM
I've just spent the last two afternoons sewing fabric to reupholster an office chair.  The fabric I chose because it was dark blue (it's for DS's room) and for upholstery has a pile kind of like chenille or jumbo cord.  Anyway, given it needs a flame-retardant liner and given the edges are piped, I found myself stitching four layers of the outer and two layers of the liner (except at seams on the seat sides when another layer of fabric presented itself) and I can tell you I was at the absolute limit of what is possible on my domestic machine.  It's a proper metal-chassis model (ie, the main inner frame is not nylon) so it has some poke but it struggled at times to penetrate the fabric and I broke three needles.  Additionally, the thickness of the work relative to the rise of the foot offered some challenges. 

So, the take-home messages are:

- you might need to add flame-retardant interlinings to your cushions (Terry's Fabrics do it by the metre)
- a domestic machine might struggle with the thickness and guage of canvas awnings

Finally, profabrics.co.uk specialise in outdoor fabrics including marine and related accessories, which might be worth you taking a look at.
Title: Re: I haven’t even bought a needle yet....
Post by: Elnnina on October 16, 2020, 14:41:09 PM
I am going back to 1964 here, my mother sewed some thick canvas for awnings on an old 1936 Frister Rossman hand crank machine and had no trouble at all.  Then years later my father managed to buy an electric motor and converted that hand crank machine to an electric one - so that is another possibility.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do, and of course look forward to reading about your progress on here.