The Sewing Place
The Emporia => In the wardrobe => Technical Help => Topic started by: Vezelay on October 21, 2020, 18:24:14 PM
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Help please. Vogue pants dysfunction.
I'm making pants from a stash pattern Vogue 1440 (https://sewing.patternreview.com/Patterns/70122). First I did a flat seat adjustment as per Anne Rowley's method which involved reducing the back crotch length by 1/2". Then on measuring the back rise it's at least 3 1/2" too short.
I've increased the front rise by 1/2", and the back rise slashed and spread from 1/2" at the side seam to 1 1/2" at the crotch - which is the maximum I thought I'd get away with. I've also added 1 1/4" to the top, tapered down to nil at the side seam (giving me 3 1/4" extra in total which should do. Is that the best way to do it or is there a better way?
What do you think?
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Mmm that's a complicated one. I've never made Vogue pants so not sure how they fit compared to Style Arc. Are they low waisted? I'm also wondering if they are not wide enough under the crotch. I'm finding I need to lengthen the crotch point on the back and the front pattern pieces. Would that help?
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@Helen M the pattern gives no real indication if the pants are low waisted - if they are I want them higher. I've previously measured the front and back rise on all my close fitting pants both rtw and sewn, so I know roughly what they should be. I'd understand if they were both equally short but it's just the back and therein lies my problem. So lowering the crotch point the same amount on both probably won't solve it.
Maybe I confused things by mentioning the flat seat adjustment and my subsequent changes. Probably I should have just written:
What's the best way to add 3 1/2 inches to the back rise of a pants pattern? :)
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It sounds like a cross with a jeans pattern. Do the sides match? I might be tempted to add a yoke at the back and just raise the front.
(Love your new top by the way.)
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I cheat. I have a much tweaked jeans pattern that is a perfect fit and if I use any other trouser pattern I get out the jeans pattern pieces and alter the crotch of the new pattern to match.
I only like trousers with a close fit so it works for me.
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It sounds like a cross with a jeans pattern. Do the sides match? I might be tempted to add a yoke at the back and just raise the front.
Now there's a thought. - could be the answer. I'll have a look at that.
@Ploshkin my modified StyleArc Elle pattern has served that purpose so far. It's just not absolutely totally perfect so I thought I'd take a chance with this one since it's apparently so straightforward! :laughing: :laughing:
I should have added that these are to be made with ponte. All my previous home made pants have been stretch woven.
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Could you have taken out too much for the adjustments and it is simply riding down at the back?
Can you overlay your TNT pattern and see the differences?
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@Helen M I'd understand if they were both equally short but it's just the back and therein lies my problem. So lowering the crotch point the same amount on both probably won't solve it.
I wasn't suggesting you lower the crotch point, but that usually helps as you can then pull the waist to the correct level (I've done it on RTW pants that I've worn and found to be just a tad too short), but to extend the crotch point of your back piece and taper it into the thigh area. It lengthens the centre back seam measurement. You can do the same to the front maybe less than the back. Do you have a particularly long crotch measurement? I do for my height and sometimes it's the 'underneath' bit that needs lengthening. Hope this make sense as it's not easy to describe without diagrams.
Ponte can work out similar to a stretch woven as some doesn't have that much stretch.
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Is it Vogue 1440? Think you got the number wrong :) your link goes to that one.
If so It does state that it sits below the waist.
Like @Helen M i have a long crutch fork....for that read big a**e :)
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Is it Vogue 1440? Think you got the number wrong :) your link goes to that one.
If so It does state that it sits below the waist.
Like @Helen M i have a long crutch fork....for that read big a**e :)
@Ohsewsimple I've also got a flat backside though........which makes alterations a bit more complicated!
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@Ohsewsimple I've also got a flat backside though........which makes alterations a bit more complicated!
I could never be accused of that! :)
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Is it Vogue 1440? Think you got the number wrong :) your link goes to that one.
If so It does state that it sits below the waist.
I looked at pattern review for 4110. Most people made the top, one woman who made the pants said they came out far too big, but she put that right with a cookie diet. :D
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Yes @Ohsewsimple, right link, wrong number - I'll fix that.
@Helen M - hmm, maybe I'm just not up to speed with the terms. Let's see if I've understood now. You suggest extending the crotch point of the back piece down (to lengthen the rise) - which would presumably?involve shortening the back leg length to match the front seam. Is that it? I find these things difficult to picture
I don't think my crotch length is particularly long. Pants generally fit except for flat seat folds. A picture of the changes I've made might be useful. The paper (pdf) be is my modified Elle pant.
Differences: The Elle pant has an added 1 1/2" waist band. The Vogue doesn't- the top 1 1/2" of the pattern piece folds down (where the crease is) to enclose the elastic, hence the slight angle needed due to my additions. Also The Elle has 1/4" s/a, the Vogue 5/8". Sigh...
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And one more showing the original pattern piece next to the altered one.
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@Vezelay I'm sure I have a picture somewhere describing the process but I can't find it right now. I have to go out shortly but I'll try and think where I have it. Do you use Instagram by chance?
Looking at the 2 pictures I'd say the angle of the crotch 'hook' (couldn't think of the word before) differs. You don't need to take it down necesarily but make it longer if that makes sense. I just checked the description and note that it is below the waist. I think that may be the problem. If you can visualise a pair of RTW pants where the top of the leg seam is and it is 5/8" seam allowance what I'm suggesting is you make that seam allowance at the very top 3/8 or 1/4 so you are gaining length underneath and the back seam (and front) will be longer.
Have you put the Vogue on top of the SA? Also you said the Elle isn't perfect for you what isn't right? I've made the Elle but I prefer the Barb (I prefer a straighter leg so taper that). Have you measured your crotch length and compared it to the Elle length on the SA site?
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@Helen M no I don't use Instagram, sorry. I hadn't actually spotted that "below waist" on the pattern envelope, though I guessed as much and still don't understand why the back rise is proportionally so very short. Any way I look at it 3 1/2" seems a huge amount to add. And I'm not quite sure how much rise length I'd gain from taking a smaller seam allowance as you describe.
Have I put the Vogue on top of the SA? Yes, though the difference in s/a and waistbands (ie SA add 1 1/4", Vogue subtract 1 1/2") is too much for me to compute visually.
What isn't right with the Elle? Waistband feels a little lumpy to me and there is a little loose fabric just below the waistband at the back. That's better in my Elle/Jalie Eleanore mash up where I inserted a yoke - that was @toileandtrouble's proposed solution for this.
I may yet just use my Elle crotch with Vogue legs - that was @Ploshkin's tip. I'll have to revisit all this tomorrow when I'm fresh and make a decision of some sort. Thanks all for your input so far anyway.
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When you say loose fabric at the back do you need to trim a bit of the pant top? I've had to do that going out to the side seam. I prefer the Barb/Linda waistband which is shaped rather than just being a straight affair. I only use 1" elastic and reduce the waistband depth accordingly, would that help?
Also have you thought about not having a waistband? Just attach elastic with an overlocker, turn to wrong side and catch at seams? I've done that successfully but have shaped the elastic when joining so it sits on your natural shape. I copied it from a M&S ponte skirt which had no waistband. I think I still have a picture of the sample I made so I wouldn't forget how I did it.
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@Helen M thanks, I'll check out the Barb waistband. I think Barb came free with the Elle so it'll be in my online sewing stash. The Vogue has no separate waistband, just the top fabric which folds over to enclose elastic, but I suppose that's still a waistband of sorts. I wouldn't want elastic next to my skin - too prone to skin allergies - so I'd need a double layer of fabric one way or another.
At this point I should just look again at the various options you've all suggested, make a decision and get on with it! Back soon with the finished product (probably).
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@Vezelay and others with the "flat bum" issue:
I kept trying all of the "alterations" recommended with no success and decided to try one more method before resorting to drafting it all myself.
In my youth, my bum was a wee bit too large, tiny waist, and "the girls" were generous in size. Shoulder pads of the day balanced my narrow shoulders, so I worked the Marilyn look with what I've been informed was "success".
Always expected to grow a massive huge bum if I gained weight with old age - not so! I say "Hello" to my Gramma and laugh anytime I see my naked body in a mirror- Massive "girls", NO waist, and a very flat bum-, 6" smaller than my chest.
However, after closely studying numerous selfies of my back side, I realized, my bum isn't smaller - all of the excess volume now hangs down underneath where it used to be - just like "the girls" these days. But propping up with underwires there would be painful!
So I took a pants pattern and scooped out the bottom of the back rise so that it looks more like a "U" instead of "J" . Basically, my bum is lower than my crotch point. I also added some length at the top. In order to taper the legs (my fabric was woven, not knit) I had to lean the back of the "J" outward- like a jeans' pattern. Not certain that would be necessary with a 2-way stretch knit.
So if the "flat bum" is age related, gravity has parked the excess "junk in the trunk" underneath the trunk - and ya gotta make room!
Hope this helps, and sorry I still can't do pics.
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:laughing:
Sorry @Esme866 but I loved your description
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Quick update for those who responded here, pants/leggings are finished and I'm wearing them. I looked at the various options and chickened out of adjusting the Vogue. So I made another pair of Style Arc Elles (my 5th) with the legs narrowed a little to match the Vogue width. I'm very happy with them - comfortable and good fit - and will post a pic in my Member's diary.
Not sure why I didn't take @Helen M's advice and chop some off the back top because I still have extra fabric pooling under the centre back waistband which could probably come down nearly an inch, although the front is just right. It doesn't show, but still...Next time definitely.