The Sewing Place
The Emporia => In the wardrobe => Patterns Discussion => Topic started by: warpbywarpweft on December 06, 2017, 13:53:22 PM
-
...well, drawn better so that you can make clothes that have a better cut!
I read on another (non sewing forum) a comment that was 'I only buy vogue patters because they are the only ones that I like the cut of'. I was like, 'oh!. o.k'. Is was wondering if this was the case? It seemed a bit extreme to write off an enter swathe of patter brands.
I have always ended up hashing my own patterns up or adjusting ones that I have bought. I did make 1 pair of trousers recently and I didn't have to to change a thing re the pattern, it was great, I was wondering if this was down to luck or if I could find more patterns like this. I made a usable toile up of some p.j bottoms for DD, the shape was just odd, so yet again I was hashing about with the curved rule and yard stick.
-
I have found that every time I see a pattern I really like, it's nearly always a Vogue. I don't know whether or not they are any better cut or whether it's the design that appeals to me. I don't hesitate to rehash them if it suits me. Other than the named designers, I wonder whether they have different designers for Vogue, Butterick and McCalls? I tend to buy most patterns from Sewdirect and get the discount so don't often buy Simplicity etc, and I hate sticking bits of paper together to don't buy PDF patterns.
-
I know most people like Vogue, and they do have some nice designer touches to them, but IME from both when I did a lot of sewing years ago, and from the last few years, they tend to come up big, or at least bigger than patterns from the other big brands in the same size. And yes, I know that's probably rubbish because Butterick, McCalls and Vogue are all the same company and supposedly the the same sizing.
-
Brenda - Vogue coming out big - oh dear, you are shattering my illusions! Yes I like Vogue designer patterns but I also find Buttericks I like and the occasional McCall pattern too. I like the Tilton sisters' patterns. Marcy designs for Vogue and Katherine for Butterick hence the latter are cheaper but they are very similar in inspiration. I like the fit of Sandra Betzina patterns. I have a few Kwiksew patterns. They were a bit frumpy a few years back but their designs are better now. I have a few vintage style Simplicity paterns to try. I used to buy a lot if Burdas but I'm not so keen on their recent stuff (Budas are 1/2 price on Simplicity/NewLook at the mo). All the big companies seem.to draft their patterns quite well but I do come across mistakes in the instructions from time to time.
Stylearc patterns have a good reputation for being well drafted. I have 2 paper Stylearc patterns to try out over Christmas. I've also got the Leisl cinema dress pattern to try. I checked on pattern review and the reviews were ok. In fact, the pattern review website is a great resource. If a pattern has been out for a while and has some draftng issues these will be picked up in reviews.
Some of the other indie companies don't get such a good reputation. Demented Fairy has mentioned some of these in her blog.
-
I’ve always stuck with Vogue and Butterick as these are the ones I’ve had to do the least amount of altering. In my 20’s and 30’s I only had to alter the waist length. Now I just do a FBA on a 14/16 and blend out to 18/20 hip.
Simplicity and the old Style patterns on the other hand I couldn’t get on with although I did like the designs.
I read somewhere that the difference between a good pattern and bad pattern was down not to the design, but rather the ability of the pattern cutter in transposing the designs to paper. Perhaps that’s why some of the indies don’t do well in reviews??
-
I must admit I like Vogue patterns, I don't think it's got anything to do with the cut though they just fit me better than any of the others and means I don't have to faff about making my own.
-
I have found that McCalls and New Look suit my figure better than Butterick and Simplicity which are enormous, so a lot of adjusting. I haven't tried Vogue but I love looking through the pattern books - not too keen on Burda but have only made nightwear.
-
I used to sew mainly vogue because of the designs, but have also used Butterick and McCalls. I'm no fit expert, so went with what suited my bodyshape.
-
I have a lot of tried and trusted Vogue from when i could get them at educational rates, now i buy Vogue when there is a half price sale but lately seem to be using Grainline and Style Arc and always get a good fit with minimal alteration. Never ever buy Simplicity, lots of my students used to get this brand but found the instructions are either very confusing or lacking. Hate Kwik Fit.
-
Bought my first Kwik fit a few weeks ago a simple shirt .. I have so many shirt patterns but they are all 80's 90's and all have fiddly bits .....made a toile its for DD and it fits her so well :loveit: perfect shoulder width sleeve length and collar seams are 1/4" ..are they always ? sewed the button holes today as she would like to wear it.. now have to cut out the Liberty Queue for the Zoo I'm making it in https://www.alicecaroline.co.uk/product/liberty-fabric-tana-lawn-queue-for-the-zoo-b/... mine was bought from ebay..
I think all the companies fit different people ...you can have the same bust measurement as thousands of other people but we all may have wide backs ..narrow shoulders or big busts so I think you have to experiment we can have excess weight but its not in the same place I get on well with Butterick patterns
-
I think all the companies fit different people ...you can have the same bust measurement as thousands of other people but we all may have wide backs ..narrow shoulders or big busts so I think you have to experiment we can have excess weight but its not in the same place I get on well with Butterick patterns
Did anyone see Ruth Goodman on "The One Show" this evening?
She was talking about how much RTW clothing sizes vary and about how much variation there is in women's shapes and sizes. She interviewed someone who's mother had been part of the team measuring thousands of women in the 1950s to understand how best to size clothing and also about a modern project which is scanning bodies to get similar data.
I just happen to have a 1967 book sitting on my new shelves (and can get at it!) which explains the 1950s project. It has lots of tables and shows just how much variation there is and how they were trying to standardise sizes and why there will never be a true "one size fits all". It seems that they preferred to use hip measurement matched with small bust (4" smaller) medium bust (2" smaller) and large bust (same as hip) but they also thought short (5'1"), medium (5'4"), tall (5'7") and very tall (5'10") was important. Alas it all seems to have reverted to medium bust and medium height.
The rest of the book is about pattern drafting and grading, but it also has some wonderful photos showing how they measured the women, and it shows just how badly fitting some of the 1950s underwear was!
-
@BrendaP: women have been wearing the wrong size bra forever and continue to do so today. Interesting observations, though, and a standard size is an impossible fiction.
-
Is it true that some patterns are just cut better?
...well, drawn better so that you can make clothes that have a better cut!
I read on another (non sewing forum) a comment that was 'I only buy vogue because they are the only ones that I like the cut of' . . .
Do you mean the designs / styles offered or the quality of the pattern cutting?
A superbly drafted pattern can be cut for an unremarkable design and a design that someone thinks is fabulous can be ruined by poor or mediocre, pattern cutting.
Pattern Cutters (these days sometimes also called Pattern Makers) deal with the technical, engineering process involved in translating or transforming a designer's creative artwork and ideas into the pattern(s) from which the final garment or item is made. (Occasionally the pattern cutter and the designer can be the same person, but both roles involve different skill sets).
In this article by Kathleen Fasanella (http://fashion-incubator.com/products_services/table-of-contents/how-to-hire-a-pattern-maker/) you can pick up a flavour of the difference between a high standard and lesser standard of pattern cutting and how that can be seen when looking at and working with an actual pattern. Technical basics such as ease distribution appropriate to body shape and styling, pattern balancing, seam lines being the same length, correct placement of grainlines, appropriate handling of closures etc. are discovered very quickly when someone tackles the assembly.
Of course there is a bit more to the process than drawing and checking seam lengths and a breadth of sewing expertise and a thorough understanding of fabric properties and performance can make a difference. A simple example is the knowledge and understanding of why there is (or should be) a difference between a pattern cut for a garment to be made from a very stretchy fabric and a pattern cut for a garment to be made from a firm woven fabric.
A pattern cutter uses their understanding of the behaviour of the fabrics and the effects of the sewing/assembly methods to be applied, (along with a host of other issues - sizing, ease allowances, fitting principles, etc.) to achieve the 'look' imagined by the designer and make it work. Good pattern cutting takes advantage of working with the fabric grains and the way fabric behaves when hanging from different bias angles as well as the other properties.
A classic (engineering) challenge is when someone wants a Jessica Rabbit type dress - "deeply scooped backless and strapless, form fitting, long dress in a slinky fabric (https://em-scribbles.deviantart.com/art/Mrs-Rabbit-265520866)". (yes, yes I know, ROFL, - and they want it to stay up, cling and look good when she moves, hahaha ROFLMA snortle . . . )
(Sweeping statement alert) As dressmaking and fitting expertise amongst the general population has changed and fashion styles have become less complex, the sewing patterns and techniques required tend to be simpler than many were years ago. Some like me say that with simpler styling, it becomes even more important to have well cut patterns to work with if the finished item is going to please the wearer.
As commercial patterns are cut for standard sizing, they have to be treated as templates that have to be edited if they're going to actually fit anyone. A general received wisdom is that only about 20% of the population in each size group will match the same standardised proportions used to draft the pattern so that means 80% will have to make fit alterations.
For the home sewer and professional dressmaker alike, they will always have to adapt the pattern so that it will fit the wearer. When adjustments and alterations are made to the pattern, some of the pattern cutting methods have to be applied - eg. rebalancing the pattern if necessary, checking seam lengths are the same, redrawing grain lines, squaring at seam joins when appropriate and so on.
To me, comments like 'the pattern runs big' or 'runs small', are unhelpful and don't give any real or useable indication about the quality of the cut /pattern making.
Is a comment like that about the fitting style as per the standardised measurements used for the pattern eg. loose fitting (lots of ease allowance) or form fitting (little or no ease allowance)? Does it mean the pattern drafting was inaccurate and doesn't fit the measurement it was created for?
(I'm not even thinking about the amount of design ease included for the styling when a designer envisaged a voluminous design.)
or
Is a comment like that about how the wearer's proportions differ from the standardised measurements used for the pattern eg. without alterations it runs small on the bust on me (so I probably need to do a full bust adjustment on the pattern).
or
Is a comment like that is really about the wearer's preference for the amount of ease eg. prefers loose fitting clothing and it's a form fitting design.
I suspect most commercial patterns are fairly well cut/drafted.
Whether the designs/styles different pattern companies offer appeal to my personal preferred style tastes or yours is another matter.
A couple of examples of brands who consistently produce very well cut patterns - Jalie and Marfy.
There are many others. (Generally I prefer European drafted patterns compared with the big 4 type American patterns - shoulder slopes, front and back being different widths at different places and armscye shapes and sleeve cap shapes really do matter to me.)
-
Worth taking the time and trouble to read the articles in the link - even a skim read shows some of the points to look out for, not just with Indies but all patterns.
https://chronicallysiobhan.com/2016/09/21/indie-1/ (https://chronicallysiobhan.com/2016/09/21/indie-1/)
-
Thank you for taking the time to post this, Morgan. That's a really useful analysis!
-
There are some patterns offered for sale which don't seem to be drafted by someone who has learnt pattern drafting. Typically these are on sale in small independent outlets who rely on internet fan traffic to build up sales. Not every small company falls into this category though. Beginners are probably better off using one of the bigger company patterns, if only because they come with seam allowances and usually pretty good instructions. Whatever pattern you start with it's a good idea to measure the pieces and compare them with your own measurements to get an idea of their sizing and ease. Some of the guilty fan based companies win sales because they seem to offer a lot of hand holding and sew along camaraderie. A beginner is better off with a decent pattern, good sewing book and access to a site like this where friends will chip in to help.
Some pattern faults which come up are back and front patterns identical in woven, fitted designs, fitted sleeve patterns which have the same curve on the back and front in wovens, crotch curves flattened out (see Morgan's link), too much ease in a sleeve head.
The further you are from the standard measurements the more fitting you can expect to do.
-
Beginners are probably better off using one of the bigger company patterns, if only because they come with seam allowances and usually pretty good instructions. ... Some of the guilty fan based companies win sales because they seem to offer a lot of hand holding and sew along camaraderie. A beginner is better off with a decent pattern, good sewing book and access to a site like this where friends will chip in to help.
Abso-flamin' lutely! *waves* Hi all!
I'm just prepping my annual blog analysis, and have made 52 things this yaer, of which 12 were Vogue, and 15 Style Arc. As I gather patterns to organise myself for this year's SWAP challenge, I'm down to 9 in the pile. 5 Are Vogue, 2 StyleArc. My preferences are clear!
Right, sewing to do!
-
Wave DF
52 things this year? Seriously?
-
Wave DF
52 things this year? Seriously?
Might not all be counted- this was stuff I blogged about, and now I come to think of it, there's another four vests I made for the missus, the raincoat on the table now, and a part-made corset which I MUST finish by Xmas so maybe 58. And a parasol. Ah, let's say 60. Only about 5 or 6 duds, a few fails at toile stage [not counted] and 3 or 4 'meh' garments which I don't wear, so they will be passed on. Not too shabby although I feel I spent a lot of time without mojo.
The star of the year is still Dawn's coat- she actually gets recognised a lot these days when we're out and about, but the coat has its own fanclub lol
-
Sixty odd items, no wonder you haven't logged in here recently. ;)
-
60 items is amazing! I know how difficult it is to fit the sewing around work and family commitments, so 60 is a real achievement.
If you're ever at a loose end you know, feel free to visit my house and help out with the UFO's!! :D
Jessie
-
I am watching that raincoat on your blog with interest, DF. I love the pattern.
-
no wonder you haven't logged in here recently
Just what I was thinking. Are the days actually longer in Birmingham than they are here? Where do you fit in the rest of your life?
-
Just what I was thinking. Are the days actually longer in Birmingham than they are here? Where do you fit in the rest of your life?
I have no life
Lol I DO have a lovely missus who is more than happy for me to wander off to sew for hours, brings me tea and feeds me, and generally keeps things ticking. I DON'T have an annoying husband or any sprogs to bother me. I DO have the ability/curse to completely zone out and just plod on listening to my audiobook until the thing is finished. This raincoat is slower work, but not a complex pattern...
she says, having not done the *gulp* welt pockets yet. My nemesis :'( :'( :'(
-
But the linings looking good though.. and very jammy spotting that pleat in the quilting 2 lines in
https://thedementedfairy.wordpress.com/2017/12/12/return-of-the-return-of-the-mac/
-
Wow, 60 items is a lot. Keeping a count sounds like a good idea for 2018.
Thank you for all the posts and links (sorry for starting a thread and then vanishing, RL got a little hectic).
The Kathleen Fasanella article was interesting, funnily enough I did end up reading what she had to say about arm hole ease when a top that I was making appeared to have so much ease in the sleeve cap that it was going to end up puffed if I wasn't careful. From what I could gather she can be a bit controversial with her opinions.
-
...I Will have another read of the thread tomorrow as there are I think quite a few more places that I could be looking for patterns.
-
I have had good results with New Look for tops and Burda for trousers. Seriously the Burda trouser block is completely different, it has an angled back seam which is much longer than the front and although I still scoop and sometimes make the back darts deeper I have MUCH better results. I have big thighs and derriere though so Burda may not be so great for someone with a straighter hip line.
-
Definitely there are well cut and badly cut patterns! And I don't think it's just to do with whether a pattern line suits your body shape - the models wearing clothes on the pattern packets are theoretically the 'perfect' size for the garment, and some of them look awful! I won't buy a pattern unless there's a photo and it looks good, however cute the drawing is.