The Sewing Place
Machine Talk => Overlockers & Coverstitchers => Topic started by: Vezelay on January 01, 2022, 17:46:50 PM
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After seeing @datcat23's new Janome AirThread 2000 I suddenly realised :) I need a new overlocker to replace my old Brother 1034D. The Janome looked perfect until I saw someone in another forum got a Babylock Victory for Christmas. Just wondering does anyone have any comparative thoughts about these two machines?
It looks as if they're both in stock from lovely John in Waterford and I'll be talking to him before I buy. The Babylock is €300 more but since I've spent so little since the pandemic started I'm fine with that. There's nothing actually wrong with my Brother - it's a basic machine that's never let me down, and was recently serviced and it can go in part exchange.
I use my overlocker more than my sewing machine, in every garment and most bags. Mostly just 3 or 4 threads. But I like to colour coordinate with my fabric and changing threads can be a pain. I'm trying to justify the purchase now, you realise?
Any thoughts or experience of either machine please?
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I replaced my 1034D a couple of years ago - nothing wrong with it but I was using it a lot & finding threading increasingly difficult due to my eyes. I stayed with Brother, I've got the 4234D. Threading loopers is much easier & it has needle threading
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@Lachica Well that would save me a few hundred quid anyway - don't tell DH, he gasped when i mentioned the price of the Janome :). I don't blame you staying with Brother - my machine has been so reliable through time that I almost feel guilty replacing it. But the only shop within relatively easy reach of here sells almost everything but Brother and I really want to buy from him. He's been amazingly kind and helpful over the years. Also I have my heart set on an Air threader - so I clearly want to spend some money :dance:
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If you can afford it I'd go for the Babylock then. I had a Janome coverstitch (2000) then bought a s/h Babylock from a friend. There was a huge difference in build quality, it was much quieter, but the harp space was very much smaller than the Janome. I swallowed hard & bought the Euphoria which was A LOT of £ but I won't part with it now. Air threading makes such a huge difference as we get older & our eyes start struggling. Although I'm talking about coverstitch machines I imagine the same would hold true for overlockers.
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I bought a Babylock Imagine about 3 years ago and wouldn’t be without it. I think the Victory replaced it.
The stitch quality and the auto tension are excellent. It’s stitched everything I’ve thrown at it.
Air threading is a dream and the needle threader works every time.
You don’t need to follow a specific threading order, I’ve had no tension problems, it just gets on with the job really, really well.
:perfect10:
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Babylock over Janome every time! Just quality.
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Hmmmm a Babylock sounds tempting. I have a 20 year old Janome and it's fine - I use it all the time - but all the features of the Babylock are much better. Threading on the Janome can be a pain and you definitely have to thread in the right order.
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My vote goes to Babylock every time, the build quality, reliability and ease of use win hands down.
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I have a Janome air thread. It’s lovely. I don’t use it for a lot of fancy things, because I don’t make a lot of fancy things, but it works easily, threads easily,
and I recommend it.
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Check the threading on this one (http://https://www.gursewingmachines.com/jaguar-supa-lock-488-3-and-4-thread-overlocker-plus-feet-set-40799?gclid=Cj0KCQiAlMCOBhCZARIsANLid6awgjVisewsDKNQbHE-OsYAgyizL-ZQ0V-tgfjkiTGmbLxg7w6Yvt0aAslCEALw_wcB)
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Your link doesn’t work for me, @Greybird
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@Greybird - it doesn't open for me either - intrigued though :).
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Thanks for all your replies. Just to widen the choice, but also stick to what's realistic: these are my options. Apparently in stock but no guarantee - I won't know for sure 'til Tuesday. The most expensive one (Enlighten) is out anyway.
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Oops - sorry, try again:
https://www.gursewingmachines.com/jaguar-supa-lock-488-3-and-4-thread-overlocker-plus-feet-set-40799?gclid=Cj0KCQiAt8WOBhDbARIsANQLp95We4uwe66h1ofshM9aWLrDcoj4ARi82FsGSFTUoo1rhT4lFbszFKwaAjUgEALw_wcB
Its the Jaguar 488 which I have had for a few months now. The left front swings right out of the way leaving the threading path for the lower looper completely exposed so that you can see what you're doing. I am very happy with it in all other respects too.
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My overlocker is actually a Bernina the 1150mda which has been a joy to work with and although it is very easy to use, cheat when rethreading, a decent needle threader, I suspect that with cash to flash I would go for a Babylock. Anything that literally does everything with no fuss is the way to go @Vezelay You want to sew not faff around and waste time.
Incidentally I do like that wider table on the Bernina.
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I had a Brother 1034D for years and decided to upgrade as it bounced around quite a lot, DDiL still uses it. I bought a Babylock Imagine 2, it's great and doesn't throw a fit if I thread it in any order. Not sure how the Brother knew???? I'd buy another Babylock, wouldn't mind one of their sewing machines but not as available here for some reason.
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Babylock Victory it is! :dance: John at the shop was unequivocal (no car salesman patter, I know from past dealings with him his enthusiasm was genuine) - I'm viewing and collecting it tomorrow, my Brother in part-ex. All your views helped me decide so thanks again, plus I did some online research - Threads has a useful review article. Can't wait :).
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Well done @Vezelay. I’m sure you’re going to love it.
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Definitely the right decision, can’t wait to see how you like it.
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Your only regret will be not doing it sooner.
You will love it!
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I got mine in the spring - it's awesome.
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What a lovely start to the New Year for you @Vezelay!
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I'm reading through all of these posts as pre-purchase research, and really appreciate all of the insights. My local shop has BabyLock and Janome, and definitely wants to sell the Babylocks. Their very high end machine (which also is a coverstitch/OL combo) runs $5k... :faints: cough choke! I came here to read a bit... thinking I probably do not sew enough to EVER justify that expense.
I see many people here using much lower end machines and being perfectly happy with them, so that has helped bring down my panic!
It sounds like everyone is very happy with the air-threading feature, and it is pretty sexy. But it is also clearly something the home sewist probably can't fix if something goes wrong (apart from flossing it). I can repair almost anything on my :vintage: vintage machines!
What to do, what to do... :facepalm:
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Modern overlockers aren't that difficult to thread, really. It's like threading your regular machine 4 times over and takes just a few minutes. You're right, the air threader is a lot to go wrong and is most useful if you anticipate changing threads very frequently
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Mine is a Frister & Rossmann Jaguar 234DF Knitlock Overlocker, and it cost £294 about 4 years ago. I am perfectly happy with it and it does everything I need from an overlocker.
I was dreading having to thread it, but it is really straightforward - colour-coded, with a decent diagram on the side of the machine.
I generally knot the new threads on and stitch them through, but even if I have to thread it from scratch it really is easy.
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@MissEmmy id never advise having a combo machine. Separate overlocker and coverstitch machines can be cheaper and they’re more practical. It’s not often you can do all your overlocking then all the coverstitching. I go from one to the other and back again while constructing a garment.
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I used to have a really cheap overlocker (as cheap as it gets) and that is where I got my threading phobia from but I replaced it because the cutter was pants even after fitting a new one and snagged on the fabric all the time. I bought my Janome over 10 years ago and once you realise you need to thread in order (with mine it goes right to left) they are easy to do. Mostly you don't have to thread it to change colour as you just tie on your new thread and stick your foot on the pedal until the new one runs through. I do one at a time but rarely need to start over these days.
I was advised not to get the combination but have never really wanted a coverstitch so it wasn't an issue for me.
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Mine is also a Jaguar overlocker - a 488. The whole front of the left hand side in front of the needles hinges open leaving the lower looper completely exposed for threading - it's brilliant!
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@MissEmmy in the US the Brother 1034D is very popular and reliable. The new version, the 1034DX can be bought at Walmart for $199.97. Might run you up to $300 elsewhere. You don't need a dealer. If you were buying a $5000 machine maybe.
I have a Singer that was under $200 at Wallyworld. It does all the basics and has a very narrow narrow rolled hem which is what I was after. I had taken a class with Kayla Kennington and she uses that a lot.
Anyway, as the cashier told me, there's a 90 day return period. She suggested I take it home and sew the he** out of it then bring it back if I didn't like it. It's still here. If I was doing over I'd get the Brother I mentioned. Or if my pockets weren't full of holes the newer Bernina. Drool. I took a class using it. OMG that is a sweet machine.
As for air threading. My friend was the manager of the local Bernina dealer when I was serger shopping. She told me not to get air threading. She said they were constantly having machines in for repair because the air threading went out. Threading manually is easy and really only takes minutes.
Coverstitch is another story. You would want to be sure the machine is easy to change back and forth between the two and easy to reset.
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If money were no object I would be after this https://jaycotts.co.uk/products/juki-mo-2500-sumato-overlocker. A gal can dream.
I am not overly happy with my Bernina 800. There is a distinct knocking sound when using it. I had it serviced and it was fine. I have rethreaded, cleaned, oiled to no avail.
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If you're going for an overlocker, then the cheap Brother's are fine. Coverstitchers however, if you can possibly afford it, get a BabyLock. The cheap Janomes are notorious for skipping stitches.
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I'll second going for a Brother overlock. Mine, a 730D, is a forerunner of the 1034D (I think the latest ones have a different number in the UK) now 32 years old and threads the same as the 1034D. It takes me no time at all to thread from scratch and I've done it from day one.
Don't go for a combined one though!
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@Puzzler sounds like something is out of sync on your overlocker. The Bernina is a nice machine.
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@MissEmmy in the US the Brother 1034D is very popular and reliable. The new version, the 1034DX can be bought at Walmart for $199.97. Might run you up to $300 elsewhere. You don't need a dealer. If you were buying a $5000 machine maybe.
I have a Singer that was under $200 at Wallyworld. It does all the basics and has a very narrow narrow rolled hem which is what I was after. I had taken a class with Kayla Kennington and she uses that a lot.
Anyway, as the cashier told me, there's a 90 day return period. She suggested I take it home and sew the he** out of it then bring it back if I didn't like it. It's still here. If I was doing over I'd get the Brother I mentioned. Or if my pockets weren't full of holes the newer Bernina. Drool. I took a class using it. OMG that is a sweet machine.
As for air threading. My friend was the manager of the local Bernina dealer when I was serger shopping. She told me not to get air threading. She said they were constantly having machines in for repair because the air threading went out. Threading manually is easy and really only takes minutes.
Coverstitch is another story. You would want to be sure the machine is easy to change back and forth between the two and easy to reset.
Oh geez. Well, I’d really like to support our local business family… they are wonderful. They don’t know it, but I also review the granny’s medication list and prescription drug plan each year as they are clients in my daughter’s health insurance business. I bought my first vacuum from them over 40 years ago🤣.
That said, I don’t need to buy THAT machine from them… even though my eyes were glazing over and I was close to stroking it and calling it PRECIOUS, MY PRECIOUS…
We also have a Bernina shop which is lovely and I haven’t been there in a while. I suspect they are equally $$$, but will maybe go in for a look? Will also investigate the Brother☺️
Thank you for the advice!
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I'll second going for a Brother overlock. Mine, a 730D, is a forerunner of the 1034D (I think the latest ones have a different number in the UK) now 32 years old and threads the same as the 1034D. It takes me no time at all to thread from scratch and I've done it from day one.
Don't go for a combined one though!
Thank you for the advice! I will listen!
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@MissEmmy I bought my bernina L450 overlocker from my local dealer after they went all out to sell me the reasonably priced Brother, already mentioned and I stated that I had some flex in my budget for something a little quieter. That one was their recommendation. Its definitely worth a look. There is a extension table available for it that makes handling heavier a projects a little easier.
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@MissEmmy I bought my bernina L450 overlocker from my local dealer after they went all out to sell me the reasonably priced Brother, already mentioned and I stated that I had some flex in my budget for something a little quieter. That one was their recommendation. Its definitely worth a look. There is a extension table available for it that makes handling heavier a projects a little easier.
Thank you @Ouryve, I'm heading out for errands and think I'll stop into the Bernina shop today :loveit:
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Please do not buy any machine just because an old one was very good, unfortunately a lot of machines are made by different manufacturers and these change over the years, although this is true of some sewing machines it is much more so with Overlockers.
I have an extensive history of working with air threading Overlockers and in a period of 10 years have only come across 2 with threading problems, one really was just age and the bellows needed replacing and the other was gummed up with thread and grease due to being kept in a kitchen.
Do look at lots of makes and decide for yourself.
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@Celia I couldn’t agree more. I love my Husqvarna sewing machines but wouldn’t give house room to their overlockers. And as you say the manufacturer changes over the years. I’ve also never come across any problems with the air threading.
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@Ohsewsimple
I agree about the Husqvarna sewing machines but years ago they made a couple of excellent overlockers, they were of course made by a different manufacturer, I know that for certain. The more modern one were dreadful.
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Yes @Celia I have a feeling they were made by Toyota??? I found they were a PITA to thread.
No one else where I worked wanted to deal with overlockers , and coverstitch machines were never used by anyone else except me. So I did all the demos and lessons. I’ve used no end of different makes and models. And been surprised with some and disappointed with others. Real eye opener when you work with it all isn’t it?
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I have a Bernina 800DL which was made by Juki for Bernina and I’m very happy with it. I don’t know who makes Bernina overlockers now but the equivalent model is still available from Juki. I was quite impressed by a Janome 9200 I used at a class recently but it was brand new and I think I was the first person to use.
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@So Chic I think Bernina make their own now.
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Please do not buy any machine just because an old one was very good, unfortunately a lot of machines are made by different manufacturers and these change over the years, although this is true of some sewing machines it is much more so with Overlockers.
I have an extensive history of working with air threading Overlockers and in a period of 10 years have only come across 2 with threading problems, one really was just age and the bellows needed replacing and the other was gummed up with thread and grease due to being kept in a kitchen.
Do look at lots of makes and decide for yourself.
@Celia, I know my Brother is old, but I have used a newer Brother (the ones they are selling now) and they sew as well as my old one does and I'd say they handle heavier fabric slightly better. Mine does not look as ancient or handle like some of the vintage ones that you find on eBay either!
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Maybe I got the wrong end of the stick here but I thought the main issue was that the threading can be a bit daunting to someone using one for the first time so they were looking at the air thread type which are an awful lot more expensive? I showed 2 friends how to use their Janome ones and I'd have quit using them I'm sure as they were not easy to thread at all! At the end of the day we're pretty much just neatening the edges although mine and the new ones do a lot more as well.
Brother's are so easy to thread that, as I said, from day one I have never knotted threads to change colours.
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I tried knotting threads when I first got mine and ended up having to start from scratch, anyhow. It's all colour coded and pretty straightforward.
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@MissEmmy as the TSPer who started this thread and replaced a perfectly functional workhorse Brother 1034D with a Babylock Victory, I'm going to suggest that the Brother (or its updated version) would be a more than adequate first overlocker.
I love gadgets and after several lockdowns we were awash with spare cash... so I bought the Babylock. It's a bit like replacing a five year old Nissan Micra with a Golf (did that a while back!). I was treating myself but there's no need for you to do the same unless that's your plan. The price difference is huge.
One great thing about the Brother is there are loads of helpful videos on Youtube for threading, trouble shooting and minor repairs. And no, the threading isn't really an issue once you've done it a few times. One thing I've discovered quite late is that mid-grey thread matches 50% of fabrics!
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I have Janome 6234XL overlocker, which is an excellent machine. I've always threaded it from scratch. It becomes second nature. Once I'd figured out how the looper threads ran in relation to each other I found it didn't matter if I threaded it in the wrong order.
I've changed the needles regularly, and keep it clean and oiled. It's a really good machine. I had no plans to change it but I recently had a chance to buy a Bernina L460 and I really like it. It's so quiet. Interestingly the manual says to tie in new threads when changing them but I just do it from scratch.
I will be selling my Janome now.
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OK, still researching here. I did go back to the Babylock/Janome dealer, but that's because I needed a new vacuum :rolleyes:
While I was there I stressed that I was interested in a entry-level serger. While they still wanted to encourage the higher end models (go figure), they did show me a Vibrant Baby Lock, which runs about $400.
I'm very tempted from the stories of $199 machines at Walmart (and being able to return it after 90 days, etc.) but also realize I can't get actual service at Walmart if I've messed it up somehow. And I don't feel comfortable asking my local repair/dealer to service a machine they haven't sold me :thinking:?
Are there any Vibrant users here? Do you consider it worth the extra $200 or so?
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If you bought a car in Colorado @MissEmmy and moved to California would you feel it was necessary to return to Colorado every time it needs any service? Hopefully, no. If your machine dealer has a service department that services other brands then they will be happy to service your machine. They do make money from servicing the machines. They also sell you needles and other doodads while you are there.
I took a quick look at the Vibrant. It didn't interest me. I wouldn't buy it if it was cheaper. It has knobs on the front. For me those are knuckle bruisers so it's an immediate no. I wanted all dials and bought accordingly.
Now, some dealers throw in extras such as classes, a discount on accessories for it for a year, or a free servicing at one year. On sewing machines anyway, not sure about serger/overlock machines. I'd call and ask. That could sway you. In either case ask how much servicing will cost you.
I've had mine for 18 years. I'm not a heavy user, actually not the last few years at all. But it has never needed servicing. The blades are still sharp. It still purrs. I change the needles more than some people who apparently never change their serger needles. I also cleaned it really well after each garment and midway when I was sewing fleece. The only time any of my friends have had a serger in for service it was the air threading had stopped working or they foolishly damaged the cutting blades by sewing over pins. You pin differently with a serger or use those clips so it's easy to see them to remove.
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As for buying from a dealer, if I was spending several thousand dollars I'd probably want some hand holding. When I bought my little Brother se-400 sewing machine I did buy from Walmart. It was $399 but when I went to look at it again they had marked down to $299. It was only available from a different location and they were holding it for me. I was waffling about buying from a dealer, all the possible reasons. I still went and looked at what they had. Identical machine with some additional Mickey Mouse embroidery designs. Literally. I forget, it was either $699 or $799. I would get 10% off all embroidery supplies, threads etc for a year. Two introductory classes, free. Feel free to come in for help whenever I needed it. And the best part at one year a FREE servicing of both the machine and the embroidery module. A $150 value right there. That was tempting. She acted like my new best friend. Really kept pushing me to buy it today. I needed to think over night. I did sign up for the email newsletter.
The very next day I got an email for their going out of business sale. :angry: It had already started on the quiet for their regular customers. I would have gotten nothing she had promised. They were considered reputable and had been around for at least 20 years.
I'm very happy with my Walmart purchase. I've never needed it serviced yet either. I don't sew over pins, drop my machines, etc. I change needles, they're cheap and I clean clean clean. No congested lint in my babies. :sew:
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If it's the servicing you are concerned about and the dealer machine is double the cost of one from Walmart, you could buy a new one if it really messes up.......
For the record mine has never been serviced, :faints: I clean it properly and oil it regularly. I changed the blades after many years myself, maybe get an extra set (I got something from a US dealer Sewing machine parts???) just to have in. If it went I'd just buy a newer Brother.
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If you bought a car in Colorado @MissEmmy and moved to California would you feel it was necessary to return to Colorado every time it needs any service? Hopefully, no. If your machine dealer has a service department that services other brands then they will be happy to service your machine. They do make money from servicing the machines. They also sell you needles and other doodads while you are there.
I took a quick look at the Vibrant. It didn't interest me. I wouldn't buy it if it was cheaper. It has knobs on the front. For me those are knuckle bruisers so it's an immediate no. I wanted all dials and bought accordingly.
Now, some dealers throw in extras such as classes, a discount on accessories for it for a year, or a free servicing at one year. On sewing machines anyway, not sure about serger/overlock machines. I'd call and ask. That could sway you. In either case ask how much servicing will cost you.
I've had mine for 18 years. I'm not a heavy user, actually not the last few years at all. But it has never needed servicing. The blades are still sharp. It still purrs. I change the needles more than some people who apparently never change their serger needles. I also cleaned it really well after each garment and midway when I was sewing fleece. The only time any of my friends have had a serger in for service it was the air threading had stopped working or they foolishly damaged the cutting blades by sewing over pins. You pin differently with a serger or use those clips so it's easy to see them to remove.
@Renegade Sewist, your comment on the dials is persuasive! I haven’t used knobs or dials, so this is an issue that would not have occurred to me. I do feel more loyal to a small town long time family business (generations), and they do do weekly classes on their sergers showing a different technique each week. I do find that tempting…
But knowing how long each of you have had your machines with little or no need for service (and I like to clean and oil my machines myself) has really been very helpful!🥰
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It’s always a good idea to have machines serviced regularly. A repair is different and a service will often mean your machine won’t need an expensive repair. They always sound and feel much better after a proper service.
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Overlockers are simple mechanical affairs, with regular cleaning & oiling they shouldn't need to go to a mechanic. Blades are easy to change when you chop a pin. I started with a s/h Brother 1034, it was quite noisy but very reliable. I replaced it with a Brother 4234 a couple of years ago. This has adjustable width & needle threaders but is otherwise similar - noisy! I sold the 1034 for a profit :D I don't think you'll go wrong with one of these.
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It’s the insides that you can’t get to that are dealt with in a service and that makes a difference. You can’t take the covers off or you invalidate the warranty.