The Sewing Place
Machine Talk => Sewing Machines => Topic started by: Merfreak on April 19, 2017, 22:06:18 PM
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I hope it's okay for me to post and I hope this is the right forum for what I'm about to ask. If not then I apologize.
I'm new to sewing on machines and am looking to buy my first sewing machine and am unsure of which one to pick. I was looking at two Elna's, first one being eXplore 240 and the second one is 3210 Jeans. Does anyone have any experience with this brand or models? I think it's supposed to be a pretty good brand, but I'm not 100% sure. Feel free to give me any suggestions for other brands and models. :D
I want something that's not too expensive, good for a beginner (easy to learn and use) and one I will be able to continue using once I get more experienced as well. I'll be sewing probably at least once a week or so and different materials like silk, cotton, a couple of layers of jeans, so the machine should be strong and sturdy (metal parts), but I obviously don't need any super heavy-duty industrial machines or anything like that. This will just be for my own hobby and joy. :D Also, what should I pay attention to when buying a new machine? Like what would important features and accessories be that I would have to look out for?
Thank you for any recommendations and help. :)
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Hi Merfreak,
I own an elna so I may be biased but I love mine, The 3210 jeans looks like a good machine, I only briefly tested one, but i find them quite sturdy and up to some hard work. My elna has a very high extra lift to the foot and also the foot has a little button to press when you are stitching heavy seams such as jeans that keeps the level accurate. Mine is the 6200. But I think the 'jeans' would be the same standard, not too expensive at around £500. It was to replace a sightly older Frister+Rossmann, which I still have and also love.
I know that Janome are said to be very good but I have had no experience with them.
You will probably get more replies about other machines.
Good luck with whatever you choose and happy stitching. :vintage:
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I've only ever had Brother machines. I've stuck with them because they have always done everything I have needed them to.
However, I think that unless you make the mistake of going for a very cheap, lightweight machine ( of whatever make but especially own brands) all the major brands are good value for money.
Everyone has their favourite brand so prepare to be overwhelmed :D
Oh, and welcome to the forum :toast:
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Elna and Jamome are the same company (the guarantee registration for my Elna cover stitcher went to Janome sewing machines).
From a quick look on the web the Explore 240 seems to be a bit under £200, the 3210 Jeans a bit under £300 which suggests to me that the 3210 will be the better of the two. It has all the utility stitches (triple zig-zag, overcast and blind hem being amongst the most useful) which means that if it is study enough it should last you for a long time.
Ideally you should go to a proper bricks and mortar shop rather than online. Set your maximum budget, but try out the different machines to see how they feel. Also take along some fabric to test. Something very light and flimsy but also something quite heavy - a leg from an old pair of jeans would be ideal. If it will stitch across a double thickness of the felled seam (total of six layers of fabric) it should be man enough to cope with most things.
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Hello again, just a thought about the new machines. A good thing to avoid is the lightweight ones. They are not sturdy and won't take the test of time, they could also move about as you sew, due to the lightness. A good machine will have a metal chassis, which gives stability and weight. A tv programme I watched a while back showed how flimsy some of them were, and the chassis was plastic! The new Singers I wouldn't touch with a barge pole! Janome was very highly praised and showed the metal chassis, as with any decent make.
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Elna and Jamome are the same company (the guarantee registration for my Elna cover stitcher went to Janome sewing machines).
I didn't know that, thanks Brenda! :D
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<3 Berninas <3 I have 6!
Welcome Merfreak,
What BrendaP and the others said is sound advice.
Definitely go to a dealer, not online.
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My Elna 444 is a re-badged Janome 1000 CPX - or is the Janome 1000 a rebadged Elna 444?
Juki and Bernina are the same company too although Juki tend to do more industrial machines.
From what I've read Bernina /Juki seem to be the current top brands with Janome/Elna and Pfaff not far behind. A lot of people love their Brothers, but I'd be wary of the lower end of their range - certainly the Brother overlocker I tested sounded very rough compared to the Bernina which I bought.
As Lilian says modern Singers are nothing like the quality of the old Singers. Viking Husqvarna used to be good but I'm not sure about the modern ones. As I said before, you really should try several machines before making the final decision.
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I have used Brother machines in the past and still have a brother embroidery machine and overlocker my current machine is a Husqvarna Viking which I love but I have my mums old frister rossman which is a real workhorse.
I would go with what others have said and avoid the more light weight machines and if you can go to a dealer, however having said that I never have I have always bought online or inherited machines ! I always go online with a list of what I want from a machine and come up with a short list then narrow it down from there by looking at various reviews. In terms of "extras" I wouldn't be without my needle threader or scissor button but they are defiantly just "nice to haves"
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Wow so many replies, I did not expect that thank you all so much, you are very helpful! :)
From what I've read (from those instruction booklets you get with the machine - I downloaded it from the website) both of them have the basic stitches, adjustable stitch length and width, buttonhole foot, zipper foot and blind hem attachments, adjustable pressure and extra lift of the foot, which feels like everything I would need to at least get started. They're both supposed to have the ability to do a double stitch, however I have no idea where a second spool of thread would go on the 3210 one, as there is only space for one as far as I know on the top portion of the machine. I saw this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTrUeC73ih8 and it's so pretty and nice and amazing and I'm crazy so I guarantee you, I will do this one day :D
3210 seems like a beast, judging from this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-UeWCJ5M84
But I really dislike the way it looks... I wish I could find a video or something demonstrating sewing thicker fabrics or more layers of a fabric on the 240 one, because I really love everything about it. I don't think it should have a problem with a couple of layers of denim or? I'm not sure if I could test the machines, I guess I'll take some denim with me next time and ask, shouldn't hurt to ask. I just have to pretend to know what I'm doing. :D
They both have plastic outsides, but they seem quite heavy (240 is around 8 kg, 3210 is around 11 kg based on information from amazon) so my guess is they have to have a lot of metal inside. I could be wrong. I remember we had an all metal machine and it was so heavy I could barely lift it up a little from the floor, I couldn't even put it on the table (it was mostly stored and only used occasionally, I did sew a bit with it but that was years ago). But yeah I plan on getting it from the specialized store.
I did look at some other Elnas in the same price range and couldn't find anything available that would be purely mechanical. They all have some screens and displays and I just want buttons. I don't need a screen to tell me which stitch I'm using I can easily check that myself. :D I know some computerized and electronic ones can be more powerful and work great, but I don't know, I just don't feel that comfortable with all touch screens and fancy stuff that could get broken some day and would take 10 professionals to fix it (okay I'm exaggerating lol, but you get the point).
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I can't speak for your two possibles, but mine is the Brother Inno-vis 10A (https://www.sewessential.co.uk/brother-innov-is-10a-sewing-machine). It's the perfect little machine for a beginner and has three key features that makes it a winner in my books: a start/stop button (no need to use the supplied foot pedal); speed limiter (one stitch at a time to rocket speed); and the backstitch button.
If at all possible, try before you buy, and if you are near a John Lewis with a sewing department go there just to have a go on a sewing machine. There will be no obligation and you will at least have got the feel for a machine.
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I'm not pitching in with machine brand opinions, I have as I said, only ever been able to buy bottom of the line machines, but I would point out that when it comes to clothes, once you're looking at denim 'a couple of layers' won't be adequate. Yes, each seam joins two layers, but think about [for instance] the hem of a pair of jeans- at eg inside leg seam, when you turn the hem up, you will actually have multiple layers of fabric, and that's wgere most machines can struggle. That's why it was suggested further down that you take the cut off leg of a pair of jeans and use it as a tester...
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Have you thought of an older, pre-loved machine. Lots of shops sell them, and some will even give a warranty. You will probably get a better machine for a cheaper price.
As you get more experienced you will have your own likes and dislikes, but some of us end up with several machines because each has it's own merits. Plugging for the Vintage option here:) Perfect for beautiful buttonholes!
Jessie
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<3 Berninas <3 I have 6!
Welcome Merfreak,
What BrendaP and the others said is sound advice.
Definitely go to a dealer, not online.
Apologies for side-tracking the thread, but, 6 Berninas???
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@UttaRech No John Lewis here I'm afraid. :[ But I will definitely pick some fabrics as I go to the shop next time and see if I can try them out.
@DementedFairy Yes I'm aware of that, but I thought a couple meant up to like 3 - 4 and not strictly 2... Could be my poor english but i guess a few would be a better word, but I consider a few in numbers like 6 or so, which is a lot o.o
@b15erk Well I do have an old machine my grandmother used but it's old old. My dad showed it to me a couple of days ago and it's all metal, but I'm not sure if it even has a zig-zag stitch, I didn't pay too much attention to that. I would prefer something lighter and portable as I do plan on going to some classes (patternmaking, not sure if I need a machine for that) and would like to take the machine with me.
I'm looking at Elna explore 340 now. It's supposed to be in between the 240 one and 3210. Honestly, they all seem good to me, at this point I'm just looking at which one looks the prettiest and can sew through layers of denim. :D
And yes I'll go to the dealer, not buying it online. :)
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You don't need a machine for patternmaking as far as I know
If married couples can be as many as 4 or 5, my wife may get a shock soon... :devil:
If you have the option of a vintage machine, take it. they're amazing, and only doing straight stitch is no hindrance! You can still pick up a basic modern machine to use for zigzagging, or even better, buy a basic overlocker instead. Honest, the vintage ones make the most wonderful buttonholes
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I've had a Brother and found it good but it was the mid-range Brother, I can definitely see cheaper Brother's being poor.
Avoid modern Singers & Husqvarnas like the plague would be my advice. Older ones are good though.
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It's a sad fact of life that the brands that used to be world leaders - Singer, Husqvarna/Viking and Pfaff are now part of the SVP group, a multinational which is more interested in global profits than machine quality.
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I would definitely recommend gumtree for second hand machines. The quality of older machines is better than budget machines and you can pick them up pretty cheap. Often they may need a service, but for under £100 you might get a serviced decent machine. I have had some good gumtree buys and as a newbie it is so much better to spend the money later on on another machine when you know what you like and need.
If you get into clothes making, you probably will want an overlocker at some point and saving your pennies for a decent one of those in a couple of years would be my advise.
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Sewingsue yep, 6 Berninas (when I went to classes at Bernina's they were surprised I had that many!)
Bernina 730 Record - my teenage acquisition, bought when I lived to far from home to use my Mum's.
Bernina 180e, first big embroidery machine - with DD2
Bernina 790 Big Machine - love it!
Bernina 344 Overlocker - first overlocker - with DD2
Bernina 1300 MDC Coverstitch - with backup overloker
Bernina 1500 MDA - came free with 790
Pfaff 1473 CD - wasn't so keen on this machine - now with DGD3
Merfreak I hope your search goes well, let us know how you get on. What part of the world are you in?
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I've had a Brother and found it good but it was the mid-range Brother, I can definitely see cheaper Brother's being poor.
Avoid modern Singers & Husqvarnas like the plague would be my advice. Older ones are good though.
I agree about modern singers but my Husqvarna is only a few years old and sews beautifully anything I throw at it. It is admittedly not the lower end of their range I would say very much mid range but I wouldn't heisitate to recommend it to anyone
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I don't know why my previous post didn't get posted... Oh well...
@DementedFairy Whoops yes what you say makes complete sense haha.
@rowe1311 What does an overlocker do besides sewing the free edge to prevent fraying? Does it have any other function? I know you can sew free edge with a zigzag stitch to prevent fraying especially if you hem it afterwards, is that different? Obviously overlocker makes everything prettier but is there something more to them than I know that makes it worth having at one point in life?
@Lyn-J wow 6 machines! Do they all get used? I'm from Slovenia. Been looking at these machines all morning and noon today haha. From what I've read online the 340 one seems the best, but I do want to check it out in person before buying. :)
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You can do lots with a normal sewing machine so you don't need an overlocker, but as you get more into it, you realise they speed things up and do knit fabrics much better.
A lot of the clothes I want are made from jersey fabric which is stretchy, and while it can be done on a normal machine with a zig zag , the overlocker stitch is stretchier and faster. While it isn't that time consuming to straight stitch and neaten the edges with zig zag, I am sure the more dressmaking you do, the more you will hanker after an overlocker. I totally intended for my Bernina 1008 to be my one and only machine for everything, but less than a year later I now own an overlocker.
If it was a choice on where to spend your money, a cheaper second hand sewing machine and a higher quality new overlocker would be my preference.
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I am going to come down firmly against an overlocker. I bought one because I thought I should, but never got to grips with it. I don't sew knits - you don't need an overlocker for these either - and find my 'overlock' foot works perfectly well for neatening seams. In my eyes, an overlocker is an unnecessary and expensive extra piece of kit. :)
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Yeah, I have to agree that buying an overlocker too early into sewing can be like trying to run before you can walk. I absolutely adore my overlocker, but I had been sewing in earnest for about 6 years before I bought it and I sew a lot of knits. I don't think it's unnecessary unilaterally though, just not for everyone.
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I have 2 overlocker a frister rossman that was mums and a brother that I bought a few years ago they are brilliant for knits and so much quicker but my sewing machine has a really good seam overcast programme so I do use that more often. Probably because it's easier than having the 2 machines out. I have done rolled hems on the overlocker and that is very useful, but it's not something you need straight away and in all honesty I could easily manage without mine
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I would also echo not getting an overlocker yet as it would be too baffling to learn that straight away. I just think that in a year or two it might be something you would consider if you really get into dressmaking, and I would save up for that instead. For now, I would just get a basic sewing machine, or second hand one, and see how you like it and what you use it for.
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Ah I see. Thank you all for clarifications, much appreciated! I'll see where sewing machines take me but it's good to know there are more options I could consider down the road. :)
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I ended up getting Elna explore 340 and I really like it, I've been playing with it yesterday a bit. I'm eager to buy fabric and start sewing but the only threads we have are the "fluffy" kinds, they were probably cheap and are really old and I'm not sure, but something tells me this can't be healthy for the machine. I'm having trouble finding quality threads as I don't know what to look for (what material it should be or good brands; I know about Gütermann, but can't find it in my country online). I've been looking at this one: https://www.macculloch-wallis.co.uk/p/9505-1000/coats-duet-polyester-threads/coats/coats-duet-polyester-tk100-1000m but I have no idea if it's good or not.
Other brands I have access to are: Lango, Unitas, Pega, Madeira (been also looking at Madeira rayon, it looks smooth, but I'm not sure as I'm inexperienced -.-).
Hopefully these threads work with hand-sewing as well.
I didn't know where else to ask this, so sorry if this is in the wrong forum, but thank you all for the help. <3 :flower:
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Glad you found a machine you like.
As for thread, Gütermann is far too expensive for me and I buy
(https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/shopping?q=tbn:ANd9GcQKG7fev-zuOUSPi9Eap-ofTME9PyM2zrlVcTTPJ8hvaa7ym5W46-tsPHwK71nPVBKgcXKh07Uo&usqp=CAE)
in reels of 1,000 yards. Much cheaper.
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You are right in thinking that fluffy threads are not good for a machine.
Gütermann Sew All (https://www.sewessential.co.uk/haberdashery/threads/hand-and-machine-sewing-threads/gutermann-thread-sew-all) is probably the easiest to obtain of the good quality threads - smooth and it's good for most general sewing. Other good brands include Superior Threads and Presencia
Some people get on well with Coats Moon, but it's actually quite a bit thicker than Gütermann Sew All and quite fluffy when you look at the two together.
Rayon threads are made for embroidery and are not strong enough for sewing seams. For most general sewing a polyester thread (such as Gütemann Sew All) is what you need. If you are sewing 100% cotton then use a cotton thread size 50/3. Thicker cotton threads, 40/3 or 30/3, are for top stitching or machine quilting.
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I know about Gütermann, but can't find it in my country online). I've been looking at this one: https://www.macculloch-wallis.co.uk/p/9505-1000/coats-duet-polyester-threads/coats/coats-duet-polyester-tk100-1000m but I have no idea if it's good or not.
Which country are you in? - there's nothing in your forum profile.
Coats Duet is a good brand.
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Thank you for replies. I'm from Slovenia and wasn't able to find Gütermann online in my country, I would probably have to order it from Austria or Germany... I guess I'm going to give coats duet a try then... I knew there were different thicknesses of threads but didn't know you might need different ones for different thicknesses of a certain material (ex.: cotton)... This sounds complicated. :/ I guess that's something I will learn eventually with practice.
I know on a pack of needles it says what thickness they are for and in the manual it says roughly for which material which size is for, but what about threads? Does it say on the thread what thickness it is? How do I determine if it will be too thick or too thin for a particular material? What about when you're hemming clothing and you get 3 or 4 layers of fabric, do you have to change the needle and thread or not? This is so confusing to me, I have no idea what is considered thick and what thin in terms of layering fabric.
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As a beginner sewist use size 100 polyester thread in the needle and in the bobbin. That will be good for most things. On the MacCulloch and Wallis (https://www.macculloch-wallis.co.uk/c/876/coats-duet-polyester-threads) website it's the ones listed as TK100.
The TK30 is for heavy duty and topstitching heavy fabrics.
(Size numbers for polyester threads and cotton threads are different)
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In most cases you can use the same size needle for the whole garment, you don't need to change it between sewing seams and sewing a hem.
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@BrendaP Thank you so much you've been extremely helpful!
Thanks to everyone else as well :)
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Some people get on well with Coats Moon, but it's actually quite a bit thicker than Gütermann Sew All and quite fluffy when you look at the two together.
0_0 0_0 I often buy my thread from hobby market stalls and some of the reels are fuzzy, but my main supply is from my local fabric shop and the stand for the Coats Moon is just by the till.
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Apart from a couple of reels of Gutermans that I bought when hand sewing the extremely delicate silk chiffon sleeves on the wife's wedding dress, I have always just grabbed whatever thread I find at the market, or use the freebies given away with some machines.
I de-lint the machines fairly frequently, and no one's ever died from it...
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Apart from a couple of reels of Gutermans that I bought when hand sewing the extremely delicate silk chiffon sleeves on the wife's wedding dress, I have always just grabbed whatever thread I find at the market ...
Precisely. My sewing is 'bog standard' so no need for unnecessary expense. I have even been known to buy those fuzzy reels. 0_0
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I use Moon thread too - for some reason I never have any problems with it, in the needle or in the bobbin.......but yes, I do quite a bit of de-fluffing! I even use it in the overlocker!
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How does one de-lint properly? Like it's described in the instruction manual or do you actually have to take whole case off? And, how often is it optimal to de-lint?
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Do what it says in the instruction book.
If you have the machine serviced from time to time, they will open it up and do the innards - there should be no reason for you to try major surgery. Try to resist the temptation to blow the fluff away - you'll just blow some of it further in where the lint brush won't reach it.
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i find a thin, long bristled paintbrush that is slightly damp, works wonders!
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i find a thin, long bristled paintbrush that is slightly damp, works wonders!
But disconnect the machine first!
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Okay, thanks for all the tips! :D