The Sewing Place

Machine Talk => Sewing Machines => Topic started by: Giotto on November 09, 2018, 22:30:10 PM

Title: Dealer says Pfaff aren't good any more. Should I believe him?
Post by: Giotto on November 09, 2018, 22:30:10 PM
 I took my aged, but much loved, Pfaff Creative 1471 to my nearest Pfaff dealer, about 40 minutes drive away from me, for a service.   I bought this machine about 1983 or 1984 and I love it.  I have heard that the motherboard can suddenly die and I live in dread of that happening. 

Anyway, the dealer/repair man checked my machine out when I left it in with him, while I was still there, and the first thing he said was that it was running very slow.  That may well be true and perhaps I have just got used to it over the years.  He rang me up after a couple of days to say that he had the machine “stripped down” but thought that the motor was probably on its last legs.  I asked what he could do about that and he said that it wouldn’t be worth doing anything about the motor on such an old machine, especially considering the wonderful new machines available nowadays.  I said for him to complete the service anyway as even if I might need to get a new machine I’d still want to be able to use my existing one while I would decide what to do.

When I went to collect the machine today he said, “Look, that’s as fast as I can get your machine to go.”  And he proceeded to demonstrate a Janome MC8200QCP.  I said I loved my Pfaff and would probably want to replace it with another Pfaff.  He said that the only thing I would miss about the Pfaff would be the IDT (which in the 1980s was called IDF – integrated dual feed) and that Janome have the equivalent in something called Accufeed (sp?).  He said that Pfaff are ‘on the way out’ and that they’re not getting any new customers – only old, loyal customers like me who’ve had a good, original, German made Pfaff for years and think they can get a newer version of the same thing if they stick with Pfaff, but according to him they won’t.   Although his shop is supposed to be a Singer and Pfaff stockist practically all the machines I saw there are Janomes. 

Now, don’t get me wrong, the Janome he showed me looked lovely and has some great touches which my old Pfaff certainly doesn’t have but Pfaff’s IDT is built in to the machine whereas, if I understood it correctly, the Accufeed is a separate foot that you have to put on – I’m not absolutely sure about that.

After he’d spoken to me when I left my machine in for its service I had begun to do a bit of research but only looked at Pfaffs.  I know there are some new models just out but I had discovered something called a Performance 5.2 which seems to be a sewing machine, with some embroidery stitches, rather than a super fancy embroidery machine, which I don’t really need since my sewing is mostly of the garment or home décor variety.  I can buy a Pfaff Performance 5.2 for £1169 online and get it posted to me from England to where I live in Northern Ireland.  I think perhaps this is a reduced price because of the new models that will be replacing it.   The dealer would sell me the Janome MC8200QCP for £1349.  I think, if I really pushed him, he would be able to get me a Pfaff but it would likely be much dearer than the online price, although I would actually have a shop to go back to if I had problems.  I’m not sure how customer service works if I buy a machine online and it gives me problems – I suppose I’d have to ask the store in England about that.

Anyway, to get to the real point of my question:  is it true that Pfaffs are “going nowhere” and that if you have trouble with a new Pfaff machine Pfaff are hard to deal with or get satisfaction from?  Or does the dealer just want me to buy a Janome since that’s mostly what he sells?  He did say that there has to be a reason why The Great British Sewing Bee uses Janome machines and not Pfaffs!

Advice and opinions welcome, please, and apologies for my longwindedness!
Title: Re: Dealer says Pfaff aren't good any more. Should I believe him?
Post by: Greybird on November 09, 2018, 22:36:29 PM
Sorry, I don't know anything at all about the machines in question, but I should think the reason that the GB Sewing Bee uses Janome machines is probably because Janome provide them for free? It would be good advertising for them.
Title: Re: Dealer says Pfaff aren't good any more. Should I believe him?
Post by: Acorn on November 09, 2018, 22:39:44 PM
I was about to say precisely what Greybird has just said!

I love my Pfaff (Classicstyle 2027) but it is certainly at least 10 years old, probably more.  There are a good few people on here who know a great deal about all sorts of machines, so hopefully they will pop up with some advice.
Title: Re: Dealer says Pfaff aren't good any more. Should I believe him?
Post by: Lachica on November 09, 2018, 23:08:36 PM
I have a Creative 3 with the embroidery unit. It's 3 years old now, I love it, I've used it for all sorts and never even had to adjust tension. The dealer I bought it from also does servicing but I haven't yet had it serviced as dealer says with a 5 year warranty he doesn't expect it to need a service before then, even with hard use. It sounds as though your dealer prefers Janome (a higher margin)? I also think GBSB uses Janome because there's a commercial tie up. Maybe ring some other dealers and ask them if Pfaff is going nowhere? On their stand at the Sewing show at Ally Pally they were showing off a new model & doing business.
Title: Re: Dealer says Pfaff aren't good any more. Should I believe him?
Post by: Stitches on November 10, 2018, 07:32:36 AM
I have the  Pfaff Performance 5 I have had it for about 2 years and love it . the sewing group i run there is about 5 pfaff users and they all love their machines 
Title: Re: Dealer says Pfaff aren't good any more. Should I believe him?
Post by: Ploshkin on November 10, 2018, 07:55:12 AM
I also have a Pfaff, just a few years old and am more than happy with it.  The owner of the sewing machine shop that I use recommends Pfaffs very highly (he sells other machines as well) and he is an elderly gentleman who has worked with sewing machines most of his life.
Title: Re: Dealer says Pfaff aren't good any more. Should I believe him?
Post by: Efemera on November 10, 2018, 08:06:33 AM
I have a Pfaff QE4... it’s had tension troubles from day one or so I thought until I tried the same model in Hobkirk’s 6 months ago.. the tension was the same so I’m assuming that’s just how it is so now I adjust it every time I use the machine.I’ve had Pfaffs for over 30 years and just love the IDT. I would probably buy another.
I have found that nothing stitches quite as well as an old Singer.
Title: Re: Dealer says Pfaff aren't good any more. Should I believe him?
Post by: Iminei on November 10, 2018, 08:51:36 AM
It sounds to me, Giotto, very much like your dealer is pressurising you to buy a Janome for whatever reason known to him ... higher mark up, sales incentive, because he's gone over to Janome ... who knows but it is disgraceful!

Im glad you had the nouse to insist he complete the service and rescue your beloved machine .

Its running slow ... is it running too slow for you???
I suspect not, you took it in for a routine service not because you were having problems.

The motors on its last legs ?? Really? Did you notice that last time you sewed??

Its not worth replacing? maybe not to him ...
But it can be replaced if you wanted it to (there are bods on here who can help you far better than I can with that)
A machine of that age and quality will have replaceable parts, a bit like a Dualit toaster (or Triggers broom (https://youtu.be/LAh8HryVaeY))

I am a Janome girl, having started with an entry level machine and worked my way up to the Ateliers. I now have the Atelier 7 which has the IDT, (which is indeed requires a different foot attached, which is very similar to a regular walking foot, and you then press a button to engage it) Its good but so is a walking foot which I still regularly use on The Splurgess.

Stick with your guns Giotto, I think you have been the target of some heavy handed sales pressure.
Title: Re: Dealer says Pfaff aren't good any more. Should I believe him?
Post by: BrendaP on November 10, 2018, 10:21:20 AM
Pfaff are now part of the SVP group - Singer Viking Pfaff and certainly Singers and Vikings are not what they used to be.   

I think that Iminie is right, the dealer you spoke to sells Janome and gets better mark up on those machines and so he is trying hard to sell you a Janome.

I have an elderly, early computerised Husqvarna (Viking) which although it has quite a lot of plastic in it is generally reckoned to be a good workhorse, although I only use it now if I need zig-zag or other utility stitches.  I am aware that if the motherboard dies it will be the end of it and if/when that happens from what I've read in various dicussions I think I would be looking at Bernina or Juki for the replacement.  There's nothing particularly wrong with Janome, but if you do decide on one I would be inclined to shop elsewhere than with the dealer who has been trying to pressure sell.
Title: Re: Dealer says Pfaff aren't good any more. Should I believe him?
Post by: wrenkins on November 10, 2018, 11:07:28 AM
Our problem here in Norn Iron is that he (I'm guessing the one in Ballymena) is the only one we have. Literally! THE ONLY ONE.

There was another little Singer man near where I work, and from whom I bought my first machine, but he retired last year.

@Giotto I'm afraid if you think it was heavy handed salesmanship, you'll have to bite the bullet and go online. Phone a few places and see what they say about after sales. I'm sure other folk here (NI) have the same problems. There must be someone willing to take us on.  :[ We're a delight!!! 0_0
Title: Re: Dealer says Pfaff aren't good any more. Should I believe him?
Post by: Gernella on November 10, 2018, 12:15:10 PM
I've got a 9 year old Expression 2 and a Select 4, which I think is 3 years old.  Never had any trouble with the Expression and it is my go to machine.  I'm not interested in embroidery so never use the other stitches so can't really help there.  I think if the Expression did die I would probably get another Pfaff, although I have considered a Janome (even though I am not buying now I still look, can't help it).

It is a major decision and pressure from the dealer puts you off a bit, although I've only ever bought on line and never had a 'feel' before, so I suppose I've been lucky.  Nearest dealer to me, 5 miles, as far as I can see only sells Janome.

The IDT is wonderful and it is lovely not to mess around with a clunky foot on the Bernina I have, so I can understand why you don't want to lose that.  I suspect the Great British Sewing Bee will use the machines they can get for practically nothing and who ever pays them to advertise.

To be brutally truthful I have never yet had a machine serviced.  I take the view that I don't see the recommendation in the book, only to clean out etc., so that will do.
 
Title: Re: Dealer says Pfaff aren't good any more. Should I believe him?
Post by: Lowena on November 10, 2018, 13:34:07 PM
I always buy Brother machines. They have an integrated dual feed which you don't need a different foot for.
The shop I bought from ( 2016 ) recommended Janomes ( his Mum has one ) and Brother but said the problem with Pfaffs is that their customer service isn't very good. He said it takes them ages to get replacement parts but otherwise they were ok....  just not as good as Janome ( which he pushed ) or Brother ( which he knew I liked )
Title: Re: Dealer says Pfaff aren't good any more. Should I believe him?
Post by: Giotto on November 10, 2018, 14:30:41 PM
Thank you to everyone who has replied so far.  I'm having an extremely busy Saturday and will have more time to reply tomorrow.
Title: Re: Dealer says Pfaff aren't good any more. Should I believe him?
Post by: coffeeandcake on November 10, 2018, 18:22:30 PM
I've had a Pfaff Ambition 2 for a couple of years and love it. The IDT is great to use and the stitch quality is absolutely fine, (though my 201k produces fabulous stitches). I've been looking at the Performance 5.2 for a few weeks as it offers some extra features that the Ambition doesn't have but I'd definitely use.
Title: Re: Dealer says Pfaff aren't good any more. Should I believe him?
Post by: Ohsewsimple on November 10, 2018, 19:46:58 PM
I'm pretty sure the reason GBSB used Janomes is as people have said, certainly not because they're the best machines.  The ones they used certainly weren't.  But they are relatively easy to use. 

The newer Pfaffs are nice machines as long as they aren't the bottom range, like a lot of companies.  But as Lowena said, the SVP group has appalling customer service and getting any parts is a nightmare.  I'm a Husqvarna and older Pfaff owner but when either of my machines die I will not be able to get them fixed as they are no longer supported by the companies.  My Husqvarna is only about 9 years old if that and there are no boards available for it.  For a £3,500 machine I'm not impressed.   I seriously don't know what I'd buy nowadays. 
Title: Re: Dealer says Pfaff aren't good any more. Should I believe him?
Post by: Giotto on November 11, 2018, 21:27:20 PM
Well, I wish I had been thinking quickly enough on my feet to say, when in the dealer’s shop, that Janome getting free advertising might have more to do with their machines being on GBSB than it necessarily meaning they are the superior machine!

I really felt under such pressure to go with Janome that I would find it difficult to go back and ask him to source another make for me, whether Pfaff or something else. 

Northern Ireland being a small place you have deduced correctly, @wrenkins, that the shop concerned is the one in Ballymena.  I would have thought more of him if he had said something like this:  Look, I know where you’re coming from.  You’ve had a Pfaff for years and you think you need another Pfaff.  I don’t think you do as in my opinion new Pfaffs aren’t as good as the older ones.  I think Janome is great and can sell you a fantastic Janome machine but I can source a Pfaff for you if you really want one.  After all, his shop is advertised as a Singer and Pfaff Sewing Centre, with not a mention of Janome in the name!  But, instead he rubbished Pfaff and pushed his, undoubtedly lovely, Janome machine instead. 

You’re right, @Iminei.  I didn’t notice that the machine was running slow, certainly not too slow for me and I didn’t notice anything wrong with the motor when I last sewed – so hopefully it will whizz along for a good while yet, even if it’s whizzing in the inside lane rather than in the overtaking lane!

It is good to hear from Pfaff owners who have bought much more recently than my 1980s purchase and are happy with their machines.  It is such a big purchase and I suppose no matter what machine we buy there is always a risk that we’ll get a troublesome one – just like with buying a new car. 

 What people do seem to be saying is that if you do have trouble with your sewing machine and need a new part for it you’re going to have a much longer wait for it if your machine is a Pfaff. 

I have a lot to think about before committing to a new machine.  Thank you all for your replies.
Title: Re: Dealer says Pfaff aren't good any more. Should I believe him?
Post by: Sakar on November 11, 2018, 22:27:10 PM
I have  bought a second-hand  Pfaff this January, a Quilt expression 4.2 and I have not regret it a single day!!!  :loveit:
It's really great fun to work with this machine, it sews even several layers of leather without any troubles, and its IDT is the best thing, which a sewing machine can have. This machine  is very reliable and precise in sewing and quilting!!!

My mother has the Expression 3.2 and she is also very satisfied with it.

I can recommend Pfaff very much! :) Do not let the sellers arguments destroy your wish of a Pfaff, he just wants to sell a Janome, for whichever reason.... ;)
Title: Re: Dealer says Pfaff aren't good any more. Should I believe him?
Post by: toileandtrouble on November 12, 2018, 07:37:53 AM
I have a Qe4 and also a much older Pfaff.  The QE works very well but my older one feels much more solid and responsive.  I'd say the difference between  automatic and manual.  My dealer said Janome no, SVP had bought Pfaff, which is why their new models incorporate the idt technology. They might be using it to upgrade their original brand and run down the other. The original was made in Sweden but no longer. I also have a Janome mid range (or was) which also works well -  a 'manual'  for positioning etc. but with screen selection of stitches. Nice buttonholes.  Their feet used to be cheaper.
What I miss on the QE is the ability to lower the foot by hand, which would make it easier to position over a new foot or a button.  The mechanical  push buttons will go on longer than computer chips and screens, I think.
Title: Re: Dealer says Pfaff aren't good any more. Should I believe him?
Post by: BrendaP on November 12, 2018, 09:17:24 AM
My dealer said Janome had bought Pfaff,

??????

Pfaff are part of the SVP group, nothing to do with Janome
http://www.svpworldwide.com/ (http://www.svpworldwide.com/)

Janome bought Elna.
Title: Re: Dealer says Pfaff aren't good any more. Should I believe him?
Post by: Lowena on November 12, 2018, 10:08:23 AM
Yes, I was told that they're SVP and it's the SVP Group who have the appalling customer service according to the mechanic at one of my local shops and a salesperson at the other one.
Title: Re: Dealer says Pfaff aren't good any more. Should I believe him?
Post by: Iminei on November 12, 2018, 10:16:08 AM
What I miss on the QE is the ability to lower the foot by hand

I miss that on The Splurgess too ... You had to manually raise and lower the presser foot on The Splurge, so I guess the auto left along with the IDT was the upgrade to justlfy the sxtra £££...

It took me a while to get used to the auto lift, but with general sewing its invaluable!

When I nipped onto a Janome at FOQ (at the J stand) to complete a quick bit of sewing for TGQ,  I think I made a throwaway comment that lifting ones own foot was sooooo last season! .!!!  hahahaha

But when you do need accurate placement it can be a bit of a bugger ... tho I have found you can lift the presser footjust  enough to make the necessary adjustment without the whole machine screaming at you,... !
Title: Re: Dealer says Pfaff aren't good any more. Should I believe him?
Post by: toileandtrouble on November 12, 2018, 10:37:32 AM
"Pfaff are part of the SVP group, nothing to do with Janome"

Thank you, Brenda, you are right, that comes of  going on the tablet when you can't sleep.  Wires getting crossed again.  He did tell me that, how did I mess it up?  The IDT went somewhere, now I have forgotten.  You will find me in the corner with a bucket over my head.   :| :|
Shall I edit the original post to avoid misleading anyone?
Title: Re: Dealer says Pfaff aren't good any more. Should I believe him?
Post by: Iminei on November 12, 2018, 10:42:44 AM
Maybe Giotto, you'll have a grand weekend out next August and come along to the Festival of Quilts in Birmingham.

You could then try all the brands of machines you wish before making a decision (I know this seems a long way in the furture, but your Pffaf is good to go now its has it service!!) and also experience the overwhelming wonder of 3 great halls chock full of lovely quiltiness.
Title: Re: Dealer says Pfaff aren't good any more. Should I believe him?
Post by: Celia on November 12, 2018, 12:43:21 PM
Ok customer service has been a bit of a problem with Pfaff/Husqvarna but it is improving, parts were a real long wait at one time but lately it is much better.  Do also remember that some times other manufacturers have had problems like this.

The performance 5 is a great machine, I have one along with another Pfaff, a Husqvarna and a Bernina and a Janome 1600p straight stitch only machine.  I have to part with one, space is a problem but I don't think it will be the Pfaff and I know it won't be the Janome 1600p I think it might be the Bernina.  really I would love to keep them all.
Title: Re: Dealer says Pfaff aren't good any more. Should I believe him?
Post by: Giotto on November 12, 2018, 13:27:40 PM
I must admit that I love the ease of use of the Pfaff IDT - in one second you can just flip it on or off.  No messing about with an extra part/foot that needs to be applied. It seems as if not all IDT systems are equal. E.g. when the dealer talked about the Accufeed on the Janome he showed me a separate part/foot that you put on when you want the IDT.  I imagine, coming from a Pfaff, that I would find that a bit of a nuisance. 

When a sewing machine is advertised as having integrated dual feed or built-in dual feed does that mean it's more like the integrated just-flick-it-on-or-off Pfaff dual feed? I think I've seen adverts for more expensive Janomes with dual feed but don't know if it's of the you-need-to-apply-a-separate-foot variety.

As @Iminei said my old Pfaff is now serviced and should work for a while so I hope I've got some thinking/researching time in which to decide.
Title: Re: Dealer says Pfaff aren't good any more. Should I believe him?
Post by: Iminei on November 12, 2018, 15:33:29 PM
The Splurgess (Janome Atelier 7) has the IDT, but you have to attach a foot and press a button to activate ...
it then greys out lots of the available stitches so I often use a standard walking foot which will allow me to stitch any damn stitch I want!

It really is what you are used to, so if attaching a different foot will be a faff then stick with what you know.

You have time! research and his thee over to the mainland to a more unbiased (?) dealer/stockist or go to a large stitching/quilting show and buzz around the Brand stands.
Title: Re: Dealer says Pfaff aren't good any more. Should I believe him?
Post by: maliw on November 12, 2018, 15:58:02 PM
Give Russell a ring at SMD
https://www.sewingmachines.co.uk/categories/sewing-embroidery-machines/1?brands%5B%5D=3&sort=
they sell Pfaff machines and he will help you with what you need/want. He isn't pushy and will give advice. They stopped selling Bernina a while ago because there was something with the newer machines - the belt I think, that they didn't like.
Title: Re: Dealer says Pfaff aren't good any more. Should I believe him?
Post by: Ploshkin on November 12, 2018, 17:02:09 PM
On a Pfaff the IDT is just a small bit of ridged plastic that pulls down and hooks under the back of the foot (it can't be used with all feet).
It's so simple I find it odd that it isn't common to all machines (unless there is some patent issue).
Title: Re: Dealer says Pfaff aren't good any more. Should I believe him?
Post by: Lowena on November 12, 2018, 17:13:04 PM
On my Brother, it just happens, naturally. It detects the thickness and you can see it adjust. I don't have to do anything  :)
Title: Re: Dealer says Pfaff aren't good any more. Should I believe him?
Post by: Giotto on November 12, 2018, 17:46:30 PM
Give Russell a ring at SMD
https://www.sewingmachines.co.uk/categories/sewing-embroidery-machines/1?brands%5B%5D=3&sort=
they sell Pfaff machines and he will help you with what you need/want. He isn't pushy and will give advice. They stopped selling Bernina a while ago because there was something with the newer machines - the belt I think, that they didn't like.
Thanks, @maliw, I may well do this.  It's good to get a recommendation.
Title: Re: Dealer says Pfaff aren't good any more. Should I believe him?
Post by: Giotto on November 12, 2018, 17:49:50 PM
Maybe Giotto, you'll have a grand weekend out next August and come along to the Festival of Quilts in Birmingham.

You could then try all the brands of machines you wish before making a decision (I know this seems a long way in the furture, but your Pffaf is good to go now its has it service!!) and also experience the overwhelming wonder of 3 great halls chock full of lovely quiltiness.
I mooted this possibility to my husband this afternoon, after reading your post to him.  Best to let the idea ferment in his brain for a while, I think!  :angel:  I'm up for a trip to a sewing exhibition, even if there's no machine purchase in the offing and perhaps we could combine it with a scenic/photograpy trip to keep us both happy!
Title: Re: Dealer says Pfaff aren't good any more. Should I believe him?
Post by: Giotto on November 12, 2018, 17:51:09 PM
On my Brother, it just happens, naturally. It detects the thickness and you can see it adjust. I don't have to do anything  :)
What kind of Brother do you have, @Lowena?
Title: Re: Dealer says Pfaff aren't good any more. Should I believe him?
Post by: Lowena on November 12, 2018, 17:51:39 PM
Brother Innovis 1800q with SFDS ( that's the feed system ) Mine cost £1200, 2 years ago
Title: Re: Dealer says Pfaff aren't good any more. Should I believe him?
Post by: So Chic on November 12, 2018, 18:48:26 PM
I agree with those who have suggested contacting Russell.  Also I seem to remember seeing somewhere that Pfaff machines are now assembled in Czechoslovakia and the build quality is no longer as good as it used to be.


Title: Re: Dealer says Pfaff aren't good any more. Should I believe him?
Post by: poptart on December 16, 2018, 12:39:24 PM
This thread is very interesting for me. I currently use a second hand Pfaff 1475 which I've had a couple of years. I'm very impressed with the dual feed function and am wondering about getting a new Pfaff in case the 1475 decides to shuffle off this mortal coil. Does anyone have an Ambition Essential or a Select 4? Would you recommend either of them? I'm not a quilter or a pro dressmaker, I just want a reliable machine that will make decent curtains and the occasional dressmaking project.
Title: Re: Dealer says Pfaff aren't good any more. Should I believe him?
Post by: Ploshkin on December 16, 2018, 13:02:05 PM
I have had a Pfaff Ambition (1.0) for 7 years and loved it.  It sewed beautifully and never let me down.  It was a bit temperamental with a particular thread recently for some FMQ  but that is common to many machines.  I have just part exchanged it for another Pfaff.  I hadn't intended changing it but was offered a deal on an upgrade that was too good to turn down.
Title: Re: Dealer says Pfaff aren't good any more. Should I believe him?
Post by: WendyW on December 16, 2018, 14:25:47 PM

What I miss on the QE is the ability to lower the foot by hand, which would make it easier to position over a new foot or a button.

I got a QE 4.2 for Chirstmas last year, and I agree with this statement! I love the auto when I'm pausing during a seam, and at the end. Really miss the lever for starting. I have found thought that I can usually use the needle to judge my positioning before engaging the foot.

Overall, I still miss my older 1467. Even just the simple job of threading the machine sounds like there is cheaper quality. The bits and parts that "twang" as I'm running the thread through the path give me an impression of cheapness. It's probably all in my perception, but there it is. There are several things that were perfect on the older machine that were "improved" on this one, and I'm not happy with their supposed upgrades. 
Title: Re: Dealer says Pfaff aren't good any more. Should I believe him?
Post by: Ploshkin on December 16, 2018, 14:58:54 PM
I'm finding it odd getting used to the lack of lever on the Pfaff QE but I like the way the foot lifts slightly when you stop and I always use the handwheel anyway to lower the needle when I am doing something precise.  Overall though I'm liking the machine more and more.
Title: Re: Dealer says Pfaff aren't good any more. Should I believe him?
Post by: Ohsewsimple on December 16, 2018, 22:34:36 PM
@Ploshkin it won't take long to get used to it.  I have a Husqvarna with the same feature and it drives me crazy when I have to use another machine with the lever. 
Title: Re: Dealer says Pfaff aren't good any more. Should I believe him?
Post by: Giotto on January 30, 2019, 10:53:52 AM
OK. I had just about come round to thinking that I might buy the Pfaff Performance 5:2 when I now find out that it is being discontinued and superseded by something called a Quilt Expression 720.

Would you advise spending all that money on a new machine which is now a discontinued model?

Part of what attracts me to the 5:2 is that it seems to be more of a sewing machine for someone who might want to embroider rather than a specialist embroidery machine - please correct me if I'm wrong about that. 

As I said earlier in this thread I live in Northern Ireland where there's only one actual shop to go to and the dealer there didn't seem too keen to sell/source me a Pfaff so if I buy online I can't have access to any personal one-to-one in store lessons on how to use the machine. So, the other part of what attracts me to the 5:2 is that Sewing Mastery has lots and lots of great videos on how to use the 5:2 and I imagine these would be almost as good as any in store help. Do you think/know if the newer model 720 would be similar enough to the 5:2, that it's supposed to be replacing, that the 5:2 videos would still be useful to me?

I do wonder if the fact that the newest model is called the Quilt Expression means that it's really geared more towards quilters than dressmakers. I have never quilted - though who's to say that I might not try it now that I've retired?

Any thoughts on this, please?
Title: Re: Dealer says Pfaff aren't good any more. Should I believe him?
Post by: Acorn on January 30, 2019, 10:59:19 AM
I can't say anything about this specific machine, but my Pfaff (10 to 15 years old) is called a Classicstyle Quilt, and I have yet to figure out why it is deemed a quilting machine!  It is a very nice machine in general though.
Title: Re: Dealer says Pfaff aren't good any more. Should I believe him?
Post by: KayK on January 30, 2019, 14:03:30 PM
I think in general quilting machines have a larger 'harp' - the bit to right of the needle so you can get a large quantity of material through it.  They sometimes provide them with an extension table, to support more weight of fabric.  Sometimes they supply them with a walking foot as well.  I had a Pfaff Performance 5 and have to say that I personally didnt get on with it particularly well, and sold it to someone who loved it.  The do have a lot of 'embroidery' stitches, but are not an embroidery machine per se.  You can make up your own stitch patterns with them, but it requires the patience of a saint!  If you want a sewing and embroidery machine combined, the Brother V5 is a good bet.
Title: Re: Dealer says Pfaff aren't good any more. Should I believe him?
Post by: coffeeandcake on January 30, 2019, 14:05:50 PM
Hi @Giotto.  I was looking at the Performance 5.2 at the end of last year but it just didn't seem right that it was being sold at the same price as its successor, the QE720.  I also had some reservations about the P5 as while there are some good reviews it appears that some people have had issues with their machines.  That said, I did hanker after one for some time. I've actually ended up with a QE4.2, which I'm really pleased with. It's a solid, powerful machine with a plethora of stitches including 12 buttonholes. I do dressmaking, household stuff and am trying my hand at some P&Q.
Title: Re: Dealer says Pfaff aren't good any more. Should I believe him?
Post by: Giotto on January 30, 2019, 16:42:10 PM
Actually, @coffeeandcake, your kind of sewing is just like mine, so perhaps I don't need to buy a machine with all those embroidery stitches.  I mostly make clothes or do some home decor stuff and want a good Pfaff for that purpose - maybe get into quilting but not embroidery.

After much consideration, @KayK I've decided I'm too used to the Pfaff IDT just always being there and only taking a second to engage or disengage that I want to stick with Pfaff. I shall have to look at the other offerings available.
Title: Re: Dealer says Pfaff aren't good any more. Should I believe him?
Post by: Ploshkin on January 30, 2019, 22:35:25 PM
Can you not get a good deal as its being discontinued?
I recently got a Pfaff Quilt Expression 4.2 (also being discontinued) with £500 off the list price plus part ex of £400 on my 7 year old Ambition.  I hadn't intended changing my machine but it was too good an offer to refuse.
Title: Re: Dealer says Pfaff aren't good any more. Should I believe him?
Post by: b15erk on January 31, 2019, 09:03:20 AM
I still use my Pfaff 1475cd regularly.  It's over thirty years old, and is as good now as when I bought it.  The built in IDT is excellent, and when I move over to use one of my other machines, that is what I miss.

Jessie

Title: Re: Dealer says Pfaff aren't good any more. Should I believe him?
Post by: Celia on January 31, 2019, 09:06:08 AM
If you are still looking for the performance 5.2 and can find one it should be at a very reduced price, Pfaff reduced the price before the new one was available so no way shoud it be the same.  Not too sure how many there are around though.
Title: Re: Dealer says Pfaff aren't good any more. Should I believe him?
Post by: coffeeandcake on January 31, 2019, 12:23:10 PM
If you are still looking for the performance 5.2 and can find one it should be at a very reduced price, Pfaff reduced the price before the new one was available so no way shoud it be the same.

Yes, you'd have thought so wouldn't you? However, when I was looking nobody would budge on price for the P5.2(£1800 - £2000 range). I did get my QE4.2 for £500 less than the retail price just as Ploshkin did.  I seem to recall that the 720 is an amalgamation of the good bits of the QE4.2 and P5.2. I don't know if you'd be planning to carry your new machine to classes or anything Giotto but both of these machines are quite big.
Title: Re: Dealer says Pfaff aren't good any more. Should I believe him?
Post by: Giotto on January 31, 2019, 23:22:17 PM
No, @coffeeandcake, once installed on my sewing bench my machine won't be going anywhere! 
I spoke (more accurately had a "chat") with someone from sewing machines direct today and they've offered me some reduction in price for a Quilt Ambition 630 and a Quilt Expression 720.  I'm going to do a comparison and a thorough check through the features/functions of each.  One is half the price of the other and if I get the more expensive machine I'd need to be sure that I'd benefit from the extra features - otherwise it's just a waste of money. If the 720 is mostly about hundreds of extra stitches I would probably never use them, since embroidery isn't really my thing.  However, since I'm now retired from working and have more time for sewing I'd like to be sure that I'm not limiting my future choices by picking a machine which won't do things I might want it to do at a later date, if you know what I mean.
Title: Re: Dealer says Pfaff aren't good any more. Should I believe him?
Post by: Ploshkin on February 01, 2019, 08:06:28 AM
@Giotto the dealer I had my machine from told me that the more expensive machines came from the same factory but were made on a different 'line' and the components were higher quality hence the price difference between 2 machines that might outwardly not seem very different.
Title: Re: Dealer says Pfaff aren't good any more. Should I believe him?
Post by: Giotto on February 01, 2019, 15:26:02 PM
Oh, @Ploshkin, that's interesting.  There I was just about persuading myself that I don't need to "treat myself" to the fantastically expensive 720 and now you throw a spanner in the works!!  ;)  Talking of price, though, I can't remember exactly what I paid for my Creative 1471 in 1984 but I do know it was over £1000 - seems to me as if it was more expensive, comparatively speaking, then than now.
Title: Re: Dealer says Pfaff aren't good any more. Should I believe him?
Post by: Mamashep on March 24, 2019, 22:13:24 PM
I had a Pfaff 1475 which I sold to upgrade to a Janome - basically because a dealer persuaded me the Pfaff would not last much longer. I have regretted it ever since as I loved the IDT. I have a Janome *900QCY with the accufeed and find the accufeed feet to be bulky, even the narrower VD foot. I had to put the Janome into the dealers a couple of weeks ago to have the Led lighting replaced, and while I was in there, I noticed he had a second hand Pfaff QE4 for the bargain price £250 (at that price becuase the knee lift and manual were missing, but I've printed a manual and knee lift from Janome fits).  I got it home, and had a play and it sews beautifully, and I much prefer the IDT to the Accufeed on the Janome. Another thing I prefer is the selection of feet available for the Pfaff.  I liked the automatic foot when I had a Husqvarna Designer 1 and it took me ages to get used to lifting a foot when I changed to the Janome. It did not take me long to adapt back to the automatic foot.
Title: Re: Dealer says Pfaff aren't good any more. Should I believe him?
Post by: Marniesews on March 24, 2019, 23:39:18 PM
Pfaff reduced the P5 by around £500 within a year of me buying mine and at least 2 years before the P5.2 came out so I can't believe they won't make a major reduction before it's phased out

. I still have my P5 but rarely use it, I find it's too over-computerised for me. I much prefer the direct connection that I feel with my old Berninas (bought used after I had the Pfaff). I like the IDT very much but I just wish it was in an old Bernina for the best of all worlds. The little Select 3.2 is the nearest to that but it has a plastic case.

I do wonder about their current standards since the buy-out so have you thought of looking for a used Pfaff with a good spec? I'm sure there are some good dealers here who would look out for one and ship to you.
Title: Re: Dealer says Pfaff aren't good any more. Should I believe him?
Post by: Apricot on April 06, 2019, 11:15:07 AM
Wondering myself about changing to a 630 or a 710. The local shop hasn’t got them in to demo yet although they would if I asked. So be great to hear from anyone who has seen them.
Title: Re: Dealer says Pfaff aren't good any more. Should I believe him?
Post by: Fiona M on April 06, 2019, 15:44:18 PM
Wondering myself about changing to a 630 or a 710. The local shop hasn’t got them in to demo yet although they would if I asked. So be great to hear from anyone who has seen them.
I could sell you a nice Janome ...  ;)
Title: Re: Dealer says Pfaff aren't good any more. Should I believe him?
Post by: Efemera on April 06, 2019, 15:47:27 PM
I’ve got a quilt Expression 4 and keep thinking of upgrading but I don’t know if I’d be gaining much.
Title: Re: Dealer says Pfaff aren't good any more. Should I believe him?
Post by: Lisanne on April 07, 2019, 13:05:44 PM
I agree with the points about upper and lower price machines.
I used to be a 'Pfaffie' - had some older machines which were excellent.  Then went for a pure 'workhorse' machine at the bottom of the range. Tried a sequence of 2 and was not at all disappointed when each failed after a few years - poor stitch quality and clunky to use.  So I switched to Bernina.  But I understand basic Pfaffs have improved since then, and the machines more towards the top-of-range have always been good.
Any computerised machine is going to have the problem of the mother board failing. . . so access to good servicing is important when choosing.
Title: Re: Dealer says Pfaff aren't good any more. Should I believe him?
Post by: Mamashep on May 15, 2019, 22:49:59 PM
I must admit that I love the ease of use of the Pfaff IDT - in one second you can just flip it on or off.  No messing about with an extra part/foot that needs to be applied. It seems as if not all IDT systems are equal. E.g. when the dealer talked about the Accufeed on the Janome he showed me a separate part/foot that you put on when you want the IDT.  I imagine, coming from a Pfaff, that I would find that a bit of a nuisance. 

When a sewing machine is advertised as having integrated dual feed or built-in dual feed does that mean it's more like the integrated just-flick-it-on-or-off Pfaff dual feed? I think I've seen adverts for more expensive Janomes with dual feed but don't know if it's of the you-need-to-apply-a-separate-foot variety.

As @Iminei said my old Pfaff is now serviced and should work for a while so I hope I've got some thinking/researching time in which to decide.

I had a Pfaff 1475Cd for many years until I foolishly sold to upgrade, and I have regretted it ever since. I have  Janome 8900QCP with the dual feed, but bought a used Pfaff quilt expression 4 recently just for the Pfaff IDT, and have not used the Janome since buying the Pfaff.
Title: Re: Dealer says Pfaff aren't good any more. Should I believe him?
Post by: annieeg on May 15, 2019, 23:09:48 PM
I upgraded to janome atelier 6 for the accuflex foot option.  It is not as straightforward as the Pfaff IDT and I notice the accuflex foot tends to wobble a bit after constant use.
However I don't have the resources to buy a Pfaff so I guess I will keep the janome to get some value out of it.
Annie
Title: Re: Dealer says Pfaff aren't good any more. Should I believe him?
Post by: Iminei on May 16, 2019, 09:12:38 AM
@annieeg  is the accuflex foot the grown up version of the walking foot ... just no bar to rest on the needleuppy doeny thing???

When I first started using mine (on the Atelier 7) I found after a few stitches of my preferred length it went back to teeny stitches, and I couldnt figure out why?

I rang Janome... usually really helpful but they couldnt help ... but I discovered you have to make sure the pushy in bit at the back... (that does the same job as the bar on the needle uppy downy thing on a normal WF) had come out ...

You have to make sure its very securely inserted to start with... Also check you've tightened the screw holding the foot on enough (not too much tho')

linky (https://youtu.be/FYpDT2xchYo)
Title: Re: Dealer says Pfaff aren't good any more. Should I believe him?
Post by: b15erk on May 16, 2019, 09:22:37 AM
Feeling very smug here.  I bought a Pfaff 1475cd, thirty odd years ago when it was cutting edge.

It still is to me.  Love it.

Jessie
Title: Re: Dealer says Pfaff aren't good any more. Should I believe him?
Post by: annieeg on May 16, 2019, 11:00:00 AM
@Iminei
Your link is correct - that is the accufeed/flex foot I'm talking about.
However, I have 2 issues with it:

(1) Its is not simple clip-on but a screw on foot which is so similar to the walking foot that its probably not worth the money to have a machine with the built-in accuflex option; and
(2) when I'm stitching the foot comes apart!

Its hard to explain and the next time it happens I'll take a photo to show you.

Annie
Title: Re: Dealer says Pfaff aren't good any more. Should I believe him?
Post by: Iminei on May 16, 2019, 17:55:41 PM
You mean the foot plate (closed or open toe) comes off the foot ?

Indeed When I first looked at mine I thought it was plastic because of the look of it but it isnt and it is meant to be removable so you can attach the open toed plate if you want.

Check you have both the nubbles on each side of the Plate/foot engaged into the holes/depressions properly ...

If it continues to fall apart take it back to your dealer or ring Janome customer service, explain the problem and they will probably exchange it for a new one.

Check out a janome vid of how to attach and use the foot, which shows exactly how to change the sole plate and engage the foot to the machine.