The Sewing Place

Interesting discussion re:"semi-industrial" sewing machines on Facebook!

KayK

OOOO....it's all getting stroppy out there!

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1730433007257745/2232816817019359/?sale_post_id=2232816817019359&comment_id=2232821217018919&reply_comment_id=2233567240277650&notif_id=1576776026926540&notif_t=group_comment_reply

A chap is describing a machine as "Semi-industrial" (which we know there is no such thing) and there are several replies!  It does annoy me when people do this for sales - I'm sure a lot of people out there buy one mistakenly thinking they can be used for continuous heavy work.  I know two bods who have purchased this 'type' - usually old metal bodied machines and expect them to cope with heavy repairs to horse rugs, and making dog beds and to sew through many layers of webbing, and both have been disappointed as they expected to make a business out of their services.  The old machines might cope with it on a few occasions, but not for long!
I just love sewing!

Sara-S

Re: Interesting discussion re:"semi-industrial" sewing machines on Facebook!
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2019, 15:35:10 PM »
Lacking expertise, I am going to ask you for a bit more detail.  I imagine that a machine is either industrial grade or it isn’t.  Am I making the correct assumption?
You can't scare me. I taught high school for 32 years.

BrendaP

Re: Interesting discussion re:"semi-industrial" sewing machines on Facebook!
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2019, 17:06:45 PM »
A proper industrial machine will have a separate, really heavy motor.  This (and all the other "semi-industrial" machines) is just a heavy duty domestic.  It will cope with the occasional horse blanket, upholstered chair cover, heavy denim jeans or whatever but won't last long if it's used all day every day which is what is expected of an industrial machine.
Brenda.  My machines are: Caroline a Singer 201K-3 born 1940, Thirza a Featherweight 221K born 1949, Azilia a Singer 201K born 1957 and Vera, a Husqvarna 350 SewEasy about 20 years old. Also Bernina 1150 overlocker and Elna 444 Coverstitcher.
http://paternoster.orpheusweb.co.uk/

KayK

Re: Interesting discussion re:"semi-industrial" sewing machines on Facebook!
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2019, 18:19:15 PM »
Lacking expertise, I am going to ask you for a bit more detail.  I imagine that a machine is either industrial grade or it isn’t.  Am I making the correct assumption?
You are indeed!  A lot of 'sellers' describe the old metal bodied machines as 'semi-industrial' I think in the hope that the older machines will appeal to a potential (novice) buyer.
I just love sewing!

Kwaaked

Re: Interesting discussion re:"semi-industrial" sewing machines on Facebook!
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2019, 04:05:41 AM »
It's a bit of a marketing ploy.  Not on this guy selling, he's repeating what he is seeing.

The class is technically semi professional (the semi industrial comes more from sellers of the machines rather then the brand itself) and has been around since at least the 1930s in advertisements (which could be earlier, but I noticed it in the ads for Singer 201s consistently starting in 1938).  It also has appeared as dressmaker/tailor machines in ads promoting sewing from home as a business in middle 20th century as well.

Modernly, these machines are kind of all over the place and nothing is the same from brand or model.  It can include any or all of these: the ability to use industrial folders/feet (aka high shank), a larger harp area, all metal/mostly metal, can sew faster then a domestic by usually twice the speed (1500-2000 SPM) which is the most consistent feature of this category,  straight stitch only and may have special feet that industrial machines don't offer but are model specific making the machine more usable in domestic applications then just an industrial, be gear driven like industrial machines...the list actually goes on fairly long on what they can do. 

But even industrial machines aren't made for heavy items consistently.  My industrial has to have a needle plate, feed dog, foot, stitch regulator, hook and needle bar changed out to sew really heavy fabrics and is geared for light to medium-heavy weight fabrics.   Most denim can be sewn on the machine for alterations (up to 13 oz, depending on brand and content with the majority sold today being under 12 oz...denim is all really light now), but at about 15 oz denim and heavier fabrics (and I sew 18-22 oz denim and vinyl and canvas) I use a different industrial that has a larger presser foot clearance, harp and was originally meant to sew saddles since even industrials aren't made equal.


Sewbusy

Re: Interesting discussion re:"semi-industrial" sewing machines on Facebook!
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2019, 08:09:33 AM »
@KayK Thank you for highlighting this seller and this sale for A Bernina 830 Record. Never been on the Facebook Group before so it was very interesting to read his 'description' and his justification for same.

He owns a business which started in the 80's doesn't say how long he's owned it! Doesn't matter though. He should and will be made aware that a part of his wonderful description was copied from another listing for a Bernina 830 record for sale on Ebay! Ebay doesn't take kindly to that and can and hopefully will remove his listing. Not too sure how a seller with one Neg Feedback out of 8 is showing 100%?

Ah well, buying used sewing machines can be a minefield and it's definitely Caveat emptor.







KayK

Re: Interesting discussion re:"semi-industrial" sewing machines on Facebook!
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2019, 14:02:14 PM »
Reply by sasewingmachines (03-Jul-19 15:56):
Rude, arrogant, impatient & ignorant, 3rd party issue - damaged in transit

So, this is the reply he sent for his negative feedback!

There is another site which sells horrendously expensive second hand machines of the same description......
I have no doubt they are well serviced, but........

https://www.sewing4everyone.com/product-category/type/semi-industrial-sewing-machines/?fbclid=IwAR1S8f7Vh9qRKmeQIOjdNRTT-CS2zZYvh3L57YR2IQ0VgE3JIwYsXYfGX50

I just love sewing!

Sewbusy

Re: Interesting discussion re:"semi-industrial" sewing machines on Facebook!
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2019, 08:31:48 AM »
@KayK  If the seller follows his own posting he cannot say he is unaware of his 'transgressions'.

Be interesting to see if he responds in a courteous manner.

Kwaaked

Re: Interesting discussion re:"semi-industrial" sewing machines on Facebook!
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2019, 15:03:11 PM »
Looking at his responses on Facebook, I doubt it.

Sewbusy

Re: Interesting discussion re:"semi-industrial" sewing machines on Facebook!
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2019, 23:14:14 PM »
Looking at his responses on Facebook, I doubt it.

You were correct in doubting his ability to respond courteously If you read his response I'm sure you'll understand what I mean.

In case anyone is in doubt it is my my words and description he has 'cherry picked' and no I am not happy about it I probably would never have become aware but for @KayK starting this thread.  Thank you @KayK

KayK

Re: Interesting discussion re:"semi-industrial" sewing machines on Facebook!
« Reply #10 on: December 24, 2019, 08:42:02 AM »
I've had a further look at his post and he seriously isn't doing himself any favours for his 'bricks and mortar' shop!  I certainly wouldn't buy anything from him!  To reduce any potential damage I would have simply removed the ad, then reworded it!

I had an issue with someone who was selling a saddle, using my photos and words.....eBay did leap upon it when I pointed it out, and I would have thought a Facebook admin would have stepped in by now.

I think there is a case of "emperors new clothes" going on these days - rather a lot of the old machines seem to be advertised for extortionate amounts of money......there is no way of telling how much wear and tear they have had.  I have only ever paid peanuts for my old machines, and have been very lucky so far.  Going by his prices, my old Bernina 1260, which is brilliant, must be worth around £3000! (I paid £85 for it!).

Oh well, I'll keep on watching.
I just love sewing!

Sewbusy

Re: Interesting discussion re:"semi-industrial" sewing machines on Facebook!
« Reply #11 on: December 24, 2019, 10:02:49 AM »
@KayK  I have never tried to sell anything on that group, only became aware of it's existence through you starting this topic.

I thought a moderator of the group may have stepped in. He's probably hoping someone will stop him making himself even more objectionable. Oh No he won't! (well it is pantomime season after all) I don't think he realises for one minute just how he comes across on there, he's far too arrogant.

I have looked further re his 'business' and I use the term loosely, and also on Facebook. Not a practise I normally pursue but quite enlightening.

I have no issues with sellers anywhere stating their price for an item, people can choose to purchase or look elsewhere. Some sellers are are lacking in knowledge and can be guided/misled by other peoples opinions of value and price accordingly. However this person claims to have better, superior knowledge and marketing skills.

My apologies to other members on here if I have offended anyone or transgressed in my postings.

Thank you for your comments and support.







Gernella

Re: Interesting discussion re:"semi-industrial" sewing machines on Facebook!
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2020, 15:53:42 PM »
Quite interesting reading all this.  Funnily enough on a recent clear out I came across a brochure, that I think I picked up when I bought my Janome 7000, first computer machine (1991).  It was for the New Home 333 (I think, 300 something) very pretty looking certainly prettier than the Brother I got rid of from 1967. I was wondering whether you could still get it but couldn't see anything that looked like it.  Anyway I got all nostalgic and thought if I saw one I would buy it.  Fortunately looking I got a bit of a reality check.  I was so pleased when the old one went (Freecycle) and I remembered it only did a straight stitch and zigzag and was flipping heavy and temperamental although that might have been user error.

Some people seem to think that because the Bernina fetches a high price they can do the same with any old machine with the term semi industrial thrown about.  On the Preloved Machines on Facebook you pointed to, I noticed my current Pfaff Expression on sale for £500.  I think I only paid £580 for it and I've had it 10 years.  I've also seen my old Janome 7000 on Ebay for around £300. I'm beginning to think that the £25 I got for it on Ebay around 2009 was far too small a price!  Or was I just being realistic, I only had one offer.

I suppose they are a  bit like cars, you can con anybody if you have the gift of the gab.
Stash extension 2020 - 4.7 meters
Left at the end of 2019 - 39 meters

KayK

Re: Interesting discussion re:"semi-industrial" sewing machines on Facebook!
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2020, 11:39:25 AM »
There are a certain amount of sewing machines that I have sold or Part Ex-ed that I wouldn't want to use again, including some 1970's Singers, which I have seen classed as 'semi-industrial'!  The one I did regret letting go was a Janome Memory Craft - I needed to raise some funds for a hefty vet bill  :(

I just love sewing!

Sewbusy

Re: Interesting discussion re:"semi-industrial" sewing machines on Facebook!
« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2020, 12:32:31 PM »
@Gernella If it's the Pfaff Expression 2 Quilting Machine, it's the same rude arrogant seller as mentioned previously.
Some buyers are seduced by names/brands and flowery prose! They either don't know enough about sewing machines per se and I sometimes wonder whether they've actually looked and read listings properly.

Just because a machine is a Bernina doesn't necessarily mean it's a good specimen. The high (inflated) prices sometimes delude the naive buyers.