The Sewing Place
Machine Talk => Vintage Machines => Topic started by: b15erk on January 17, 2021, 19:42:52 PM
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My lovely FW was put away a few weeks ago, after making some masks with no trouble at all. I took her out of her box last night so that I can use the Ruffler - she's the only SM I have at home which it fits. I gave it a test run, but it wasn't running at all well, the stitches were varying sizes and the machine was noisy.
I've had bobbin trouble with this machine before, and know what to do, but unfortunately, nothing I have done has fixed the problem.
The machine runs nicely until I try to put the needle plate back, but then it tries to lift the plate - as if the feed dogs are lifting it up!! :o
Could I possibly have knocked the timing out? Or have I done even worse damage... :'(
I can manage without the Ruffler, but I'm really concerned about my lovely FeatherWeight... :'(
If anyone can help I would be very grateful as I don't know of any local SM Engineer.
Jessie
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Definitely the right bobbin?
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If the needle plate is lifting, it suggests that the bobbin holding section has been removed and not put back in correctly. Very easily done.
There is a video about this - let me see if I can find the one . . .
This video
https://singer-featherweight.com/blogs/schoolhouse/is-your-machine-jammed
when you replace the bobbin case, the positioning finger must be correctly placed in the slot on the bottom of the throat plate. Otherwise the case moves with each revolution of the case.
I've done that before and got the kind of resultyou talk about. Is it that?
leila
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@Ohsewsimple , many thanks, yes the bobbins are correct, I keep them all separate in a little box. They are the ones which came with my machine and have been fine up to now.
@LeilaMay , thank you so much for the link, the tutorial is the same one I followed on Youtube to remove the hook assembly and replace it. On the link you posted is another video about timing - and I think this is the one I need... :'( :'(
I've just been upstairs to check, and the finger is in the correct position when the needle plate is replaced, but when I turn the hand wheel, the mechanism underneath tries to lift it up - you can imagine the racket when I try to sew with the needle plate screwed down... :'( :'( :S
I'll spend an hour on it later, but after that it will have to go back in the box, as I don't want to do any more damage...
Jessie
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Okay, so if the hook assembly is actually still moving, it's possible it is not properly secured on the rotating shaft - you are right this is covered in the timing video and I hope you can get it sorted. maybe it's just that the screw there has come lose?
Fingers crossed
Leila
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@LeilaMay , I've been putting off doing it this morning - I always think I'm going to make matters worse! But if I'm going to do it, I need daylight, so, I will finish my lunch, and give it a go...
Where's the fingers crossed emoji when you need it? :rolleyes:
Jessie
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Well, it wasn't that. I took the whole bobbin assembly apart, reassembled it, and it's doing the same thing. It is literally trying to lift the needle plate up as I turn the wheel.
I'm going to give it one more try, then it's going back in the box, until I can find someone to fix it...
:boohoo: :'( :S :thinking:
Jessie
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Hope you get it sorted @b15erk. Annoying when you want to get on.
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Getting the bobbin race correctly positioned can be very tricky on a lot of machines. It wouldn't be the first time that I have walked away and started again the next day.
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@BrendaP , it's the first time I've had a problem, I just wish I had more knowledge...
The FW isn't actually a complex mechanism, but figuring out this problem is giving me a headache. :facepalm:
Jessie
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Hi Jessie
When you look at your assembled machine, does it curently look just ike this?
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0992/8814/files/Bobbin_Case_Assembly_A2_B2-1_large.jpg?v=1479872676
If it does, what part moves when you turn the flywheel to start pushing against the needle plate? I can't visualise it, because apart from the projecting 'finger' it is al round.
can you describe exactly what happens?
So hard to help from a distance - sorry
leila
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When you look at the bobbin area from the end - as in the photograph, it swivels round that central point. If the hook is closed and screwed in position, and the finger is in position, then there is nothing there to stick out and shift the plate.
Next thing then - if the plate is in the exact correct position and screwed down tight when you're turning the flywheel - is that the feed dogs are not sitting correctly any more.
?Are you sure the plate is bedded in the right place? If it's out at all the feed dogs will foul it as they move up and down in their slot.
?If the plate is right, then perhaps the feed dogs are somehow shifted out of place - are they still screwed tightly in their place as far as you can tell when u take the needle plate off again and look at them? Check the screws.
If they seem correct, and the plate seems to sit properly in place, then I can't help any more - there must be something amiss deeper in the machine and I couldn't tell without having it in front of me.
Best wishes with it
Leila
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@LeilaMay , thank you so much. I took a pic this morning, and this is what it looks like.
Jessie
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- let me watch the featherweight shop video again LOL to check your positioning
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okay - that looks right from here - balancing a machine on my lap as I type so sorry for any typos
so what about the feed dog suggestions - could it be them?
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@BrendaP , it's the first time I've had a problem, I just wish I had more knowledge...
The FW isn't actually a complex mechanism, but figuring out this problem is giving me a headache. :facepalm:
Jessie
I'm guessing the issue still isn't solved Jessie? I am sorry.
I would highly recommend all the tutorials from the Featherweight Sewing Shop - there is all you need to know there - I have rewired a machine and restored one that came in bits using their information.
Do let us know how you get on - it would increase my knowledge of possible problems once you know what it is if you would share.
Best wishes to you
leila
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@LeilaMay , I'm seriously thinking about the feed dogs, and wondering if they could have been damaged somehow.
I left the needle plate off, and turned the handwheel so that I could see what was going on, and the needle plate is lifting at the back, then when I complete the turn, it drops back. I've attached a picture.
Jessie
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It has to be something to do with the feed dogs then - there is nothing else under there that moves in that way.
You checked the dogs were screwed down tightly?
And that the plate is in the right position?
:thinking:
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@LeilaMay , I think we have cross posted!
I joined the FB FW group, and tried all of their suggestions, but nothing has changed. I'm still waiting for a reply from the Featherweight Shop, so may get some help there.
I'm now wondering if it may be a quicker solution, to buy a ruffler for either the Singer 611g or the Bernina 730...
Jessie
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@LeilaMay , plate is correct, but doesn't drop in easily, I need to wiggle it. I cleaned the feed dogs, so I know they are fine, but wondering if something has shifted with all the pulling about I've been doing...
Jessie
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Okay :) Well do let me now what they say. I could disassemble one of mine to try and replicate the problem you have, but I've something else on my little work table at the moment and I'd get in a heck of mess LOL
The feed dogs do connect the main rotating mechanism underneath the machine - It is possible that they are somehow slipped out of place or lose on the shaft, I will see if I can locate a lesson that includes that bit.
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@LeilaMay , thank you so much for your help and encouragement, it is very much appreciated. I'm giving it one more day, then I'll have to put it away for a while.
Jessie
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I'm going to watch this - it includes a whole section where he is underneath the machine and adjusting the dogs - this may help point the problem
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiawmtFpzkM
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@LeilaMay , I've just watched this all the way through, and I think the problem may be that the feed dogs have been slightly disturbed and are not clearing the slots... The description came right at the end and it started ringing bells with me. I do hope it's an easy adjustment and that I don't need to replace the feed dogs...
Thank you for all your help, I will report back... ;)
Jessie
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@LeilaMay , I think I've found the problem! Don't know how it's happened, but the feed dogs are coming too far forward, and lifting the needle plate on the way up. I've added a close up picture, and you can see the front teeth of the feed dogs catching the underside of the needle plate.
No idea how to fix it, as I can't get the feed dogs off - they are screwed down solid.
So, she will return to her box, until I find someone locally who can fix her. :( :'(
At least now I know what is causing the problem.
Many, many thanks for your help.
Jessie
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Well I'm glad you've at least got an idea what's happening now.
The 'up and down' motion of the dogs is controlled by the central rotating shaft under the machine, and the backwards and forwards motion by controlled by one of the bars underneath the machine. It is probably best to get someone qualified to fix it for you if you're not confident. Hopefully it should be a fairly straightforward fix, and you'll soon have it back.
Best of luck with it.
?Will the ruffler you have fit on the other Singer machine you mentioned? It might do?
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@LeilaMay , yes it's going in the box tonight. I haven't got the right tools to unscrew the feed dogs, and no idea how the under mechanism works... I can only think I've knocked it out of whack when I've been sorting the bobin area...
I've got a few rufflers but they are all low shank, so I haven't even got one to fit the 611g which is a slant shank. I'm going to ask OH to bring either the 99k or the 185k home, either one will do the job.
This is all because I want to make a ruffley blouse and my usual method is too long winded :laughing: :laughing: I could have made 2 frilly blouses in the time this has taken!! :headbang: :boohoo:
Thank you for all your help.
Jessie
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@LeilaMay .............
So, she will return to her box, until I find someone locally who can fix her. :( :'(
@LeilaMay .............
So, she will return to her box, until I find someone locally who can fix her. :( :'(...........
I see that you joined the FB group. Have you thought about sending your machine to Philip Enstone? Has your's been completely rewired? I had mine serviced in Edinburgh in October; it came back with no recommendation for a re-wire in spite of the fact that it is strongly recommended now because the original 1960s wiring is no longer safe. I checked the wiring and found an exposed area where the old fabric insulation had worn away. And you may know that this is important because the wiring is internal on this model. The wires were also covered in oil which degrades the insulation and after two months it was still dripping from the needle tip. I posted mine just over a week ago, after getting advice. They are relatively easy to pack and transport and courier collection and delivery is organised by Philip. My machine has had a thorough cleaning, rewiring and service, plus the case has been mended and I feel a lot more confident in using it. For me it was a good investment, especially since in my experience it can be hard to find a good service engineer for vintage machines.
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@Lace,I've only just seen your reply, and thank you so much for it. It's good to have the name of a reliable 'fixer', I think I may need to use his services before very long. :'(
My Featherweight doesn't seem to have wiring issues, it's more to do with the internal workings ie the shaft, and the feed dogs.
I found some more tutorials the other day, and took her out of her box to see if I could have another tinker. Unfortunately, I seem to have made matters worse, and now the shaft will only do a half turn.
I checked the timing, that seems OK, and the height of the feed dogs, but they still seem to be coming too far forward, and lifting the needle plate on the return.
It is now de-constructed on the sewing table, waiting for a rainy day, for me to either have another go, or pack it away again. :'(
Jessie
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I don't want to appear rude, but I would honestly stop now. If you can't recognize what the mechanical problem is, you're probably going to make it better not worse.
Get it to the recommended repair man if you can - the featherweight shop have a tutorial on how to pack the machine safely for transit i needed.
<3
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@Lace,I've only just seen your reply, and thank you so much for it. It's good to have the name of a reliable 'fixer', I think I may need to use his services before very long. :'(
b15erk Have you actually joined the FB Group? Singer Featherweights UK? Not sure if I mentioned that the Admin is also the main UK resource/fixer for FWs. At any rate even if you don't want to send your machine to him you could post in the Group for some help from 803 members, most of whom have one if not more FWS each. He's not just about wiring; he found a broken metal piece in my machine and fixed it. He organises collection and delivery so it was quite easy. I am not permitted to post links here as I am still 'new' but there is also a VSSMUK FB Group of 4.1K members, another Admin who is a resource/fixer. Since my very bad experience with a local shop, (which opened when FWs were still being manufactured) I would only use a recognised service shop - hence my suggestions about the FB Groups. Good luck! :)
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@LeilaMay , you are right, tbh, I wish I'd left her in her box. I haven't done anything different but put plenty of oil on things, strip the bobbin area, and give it a good cleaning. I've obviously disturbed something, as I can't get the shaft to do a full turn, to tighten the second screw...
@Lace , yes I joined the FW group, and had a FB discussion with a lovely chap who seemed very knowledgeable - unfortunately , he's Canadian, so a bit too far to send my machine... :facepalm: I feel a bit embarrassed to raise the same issue again, when no-one seemed able to help - especially as I seem to have made matters worse...
As LeilaMay says, I think it may be time to re-construct the FW so that all the bits are together if not working, and put her in her box again, until I feel able to send her away...
My problem I think, is that the FW looks like very simple engineering, and I've been a bit Gung Ho. I didn't reckon on things being so finely balanced that I may have disturbed something. YouTube has a lot to answer for!
Jessie
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@Lace , yes I joined the FW group, and had a FB discussion with a lovely chap who seemed very knowledgeable - unfortunately , he's Canadian, so a bit too far to send my machine... :facepalm: I feel a bit embarrassed to raise the same issue again, when no-one seemed able to help - especially as I seem to have made matters worse...
Jessie I don't know who you are talking about; you are right about Canada. Is it the Singer Featherweights UK Group you joined? I am not permitted to post links here and I can't find your name amongst the members there, but then I don't know what name you have used - Jessie or b15erk. So I can't respond to your posts there. I'm Mary Hayward and you can find me if you search the FW Group members. I am only here as Lace because it was my TSF name. You just need to message to Phil Enstone, the Admin. He will tell you how to pack the machine. He uses his own courier as well. Is there a reason you are wary of sending your machine away? We are just trying to help from our own experiences. If you read the posts at the FB Group you will see that lots of other people have sent their machines to Phil. :)
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@Lace , I've just checked and I'm in the wrong group, Featherweight Friends is the one I belong to. I will head over to FB now and see if I can sign up to the UK one.
Thank you so much for your help!
Jessie
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@Lace , I've just checked and I'm in the wrong group, Featherweight Friends is the one I belong to. I will head over to FB now and see if I can sign up to the UK one.
Just PM me when you are there Jessie. Search the Members. It might be a few days. PS Have you seen how many FWs LeilaMay has? Incredible! :loveit:
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I just thought that some people are mechanically-minded, and some are not. If a machine needs work on it - it is easier if it hasn't been messed around with too much, the more you undo the more things will need setting right :)
Good luck with it :vintage:
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@Lace , I've just signed up now, so hopefully, I'll hear something soon. I know LeilaMay has a lot of machines, I didn't know she had multiple FW's!
I have quite a few vintage machines, most of which I keep at work, and I feel comfortable tinkering with them, up to now I've had no mishaps. The FW was a step too far though... It got me!
Just as I was getting to use it regularly too. I did bring a 185k home from work to use instead - but I'd forgotten the foot pedal! :S
Atm I'm using the Bernina 730, which I'm slowly making friends with, and the Singer 611g, which I love - especially for buttonholes.
Jessie
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I have four, I am very fortunate. But three were bargains, sold dirty and in one case with missing wiring, and I knew I could fix them so I chanced it. The white was pricey though :)
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@LeilaMay , I must admit I've been casting my eye over a few very fetching white FW's - but the prices are daft!
I thought I'd paid a lot for my FW at £100, but when I see the prices they are now selling at, it's eye watering!
When I bought it, I didn't think I would like sewing with it as much as I have - and then I went and broke it! :S
Jessie
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I just thought that some people are mechanically-minded, and some are not.
So very true LeilaMay. I am very much the latter. Got all my machines in near perfect condition a decade ago and don't adjust anything on them apart from what is in the manual. I have four that I have never sewn on. I really am just a collector and very happy with my ten. :laughing:
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@b15erk When you put the bobbin area back, did you get the 'finger' in the groove before you replaced the stitch plate. I remember a strong warning to make sure of that when you reassemble I found a FW service manual online. a lot of pages, but just print out the section you are interested in. Hope you can fix it.
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@toileandtrouble , yes I've done that, and I don't think I can do any more without making things worse as LeilaMay suggested. I found, and printed off a service manual, so I'll have a look at that.
I've also joined a UK FB group now (thanks @Lace) and fingers crossed I will either get some help there, or send my FW away to be fixed...
It's frustrating as I don't believe that much has gone wrong with her. :S
Jessie
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One thing to consider - the feed dog movement is controlled by the stitch length regulator. Fewer stitches per inch means they move a longer distance and vice versa. Video (https://singer-featherweight.com/blogs/schoolhouse/how-to-adjust-the-stitch-length-lever-1). Is there any possible clue here? :thinking:
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@jesster , thank you for that. I'm going upstairs now so will check it out.
I'm armed with my service manual, and my camera, fingers crossed I can at least get it back together...
Jessie
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Good luck with it :) I have a white FW that's given me fits because it won't hold a stitch length and insists on doing the smallest possible stitch. Repairman #1 was unsuccessful in solving it for more than the length of 1 seam and has since retired. Looking for repairman #2...
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Looking for repairman #2...
Are you a member of Singer Featherweights UK on FB? It's so easy to post a 221K for fixing. Quite a few people do and I know of two men who will repair them.
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Latest Report.
Went up to re-assemble the FW, and unlike yesterday, the bobbin assembly/shaft, went together beautifully.
With all my new knowledge, a maintenance book, and a video camera, I set to try my machine. Firstly I started by putting the needle plate back on without the screws, and rotated the handwheel by hand, with the stitch length set to the longest. It was lifting up at the front of the needle plate, and as the feed dogs moved back, the needle plate dropped down.
I then moved the stitch length lever right to the top, in reverse, and there was very little clatter.
I repeated the exercise with the motor running - noisier with the stitch lever on long than in reverse.
I think I have established that I have a Feed Dog Issue... :boohoo: The feed dog is coming too far forward and needs adjusting... I don't know if I can manage that. :S :( Just a smidge is all it needs...
Not sure how it happened. I'll now go and compose a hopefully coherent account to post on the SFUK on FB.
Thank you all so much for your invaluable help and advice.
Jessie
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@Lace - Thank you for the idea, but I'm in the US. I do have the name of another repairman here and am hopeful he'll figure it out. #1 was a son-in-law of the great guy who did this work for years.
@b15erk - I believe there are just a couple of screws holding the feed dogs in place. If one became loosened somehow, it might be enough to throw off the movement. On the other hand, there is timing involved in the feed dogs as well as the needle/bobbin interface. I wouldn't mess with that myself. How frustrating! Hope you find someone who can help.
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@Lace - Thank you for the idea, but I'm in the US. I do have the name of another repairman here and am hopeful he'll figure it out. #1 was a son-in-law of the great guy who did this work for years.
It's a problem in the UK too jesster; they get old and retire! My repairman died last August - he used to work for Singer near Glasgow. Then I found another but he is 86... from today we are allowed to travel out of our local area and I just hope he is still in his shop.
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@Jester If you're in the US then I'd always recommend the Singer Featherweight Shop :)
We did talk about the feeddogs at the very beginning of this thread LOL
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@LeilaMay
I know... :| :rolleyes:
Jessie
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@LeilaMay - thanks for that. The FW shop is a great resource and I've ordered various bits from them before. They are located about 2500 miles from me, so I would have to ship the machine. I'd like to solve this one with someone more local if possible. Repairman #2 comes highly recommended by people who have used his services, so I'm hopeful.
Yes, I saw the mention, but I hadn't watched the whole Andy video yet, so I missed his feed dog demonstration. On my machine, I think there must be something in the link between the stitch regulator and the feed dogs that isn't holding, but it's nothing visible to me. Might be hidden in the depths of the column? :headbang: Wish I could ask repairman #1 what he thought it was, but the shop is gone. Will be looking forward to seeing the solution to @b15erk 's issue. It might give me a new clue.
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I think I've done it! :dance:
With a lot of help from you ladies, and a phone call from Philip, from the Featherweight UK FB group. It was indeed the feed dogs which were causing the problem.
With great difficulty this morning, and a stubby screwdriver, I undid the back screw holding the feed dogs in place. It was really stuck, and I really struggled with it, but eventually, I managed to remove it. The front screw, I was surprised to see, was quite loose in comparison, and I'm wondering if this was causing enough 'give' to create my problem. After fiddling a bit with no luck, I had a think, and I moved the stitch length lever up to the highest point, and then screwed the feed dogs down. It seems to have worked because when I moved the handwheel, there was no clattering of the stitch plate.
I have yet to try it with the motor running though, so fingers are well and truly crossed!
Many thanks to you all for your advice and encouragement, I couldn't have done it without you! :grouphug:
Jessie
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It has to be something to do with the feed dogs then - there is nothing else under there that moves in that way.
You checked the dogs were screwed down tightly?
And that the plate is in the right position?
:thinking:
Glad you've fixed it, I really am - but what can I say? I asked you that question ages ago!
Enjoy her now she's better.
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@LeilaMay , you are well entitled to an 'I told you so' moment, what can I say... :| :|
I did check the screws on feed dogs, but only the back one really. Because the back one was so tight, I didn't really try the front one... :[ :|
If nothing else, it has shown me that there are limits to my DIY FW skills...
Jessie (with a very red face this morning!) :|
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I am truly very happy for you if it's sorted now.
It's just the 'being mis-believed because you're a girl' thing.
Like when you take your own car to the garage, and tell the mechanic the tappets are knocking or whatever, and you get the "Alright love, we'll find out what it is" attitude.
If I was a man, would you have believed me when I told you it was the feed-dogs? You know?
I worked in a predominately male workplace, and I am so fed up (at 60) still being treated like I don't know what I'm talking about because I'm more interested in mechanics that knowing how to turn a collar or cook a three course dinner :(
My problem not yours, I know, I'm sorry to rant.
I hope it's perfect now :vintage:
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@b15erk :dance: So glad you were able to fix it. Well done!
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It's just the 'being mis-believed because you're a girl' thing.
If I was a man, would you have believed me when I told you it was the feed-dogs? You know?
@LeilaMay I'm sorry for your experiences in the work place, but if b15erk had not believed you because you are a girl, I would have thought she would not have checked the feeddogs at all. It seems to me that she did check them, just not as thoroughly as was needed and that not checking the front screw was due to the status of the back screw and nothing to do with who had made the suggestion.
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FYI: There's a 'Singer 221 Adjuster's Manual' that might have helped in this situation. It covers the Stitch-length-regulator too (also mentioned here). It's an Owner's Service Manual, dedicated to Singer Featherweights. Originally published by Singer, its now reprinted by a third-party. I've only seen them for sale at 'The Featherweight Shop', USA. I bought one a few years ago - a little pricey - but well worth having and keeping with your Featherweight.
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Also found a free download of the original one here (https://www.manualslib.com/download/1024784/Singer-221-1.html) recently. :thumb:
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I really thought I had fixed mine, but unfortunately I was wrong...
Not enough adjustment on the feed dogs, so the FW will have to go away for a while, until I can send her to be fixed... :(
There's a lovely guy (Philip) on the UK Featherweight site, so as soon as I feel well enough, she'll be off there. :thumbsup:
Jessie