Help please for this singer!

[William]

Hello all and thanks for any help...

I am considering the purchase (used) of either a Singer Symphonie vi or a SINGER Nähmaschine C520L both approximately the same price.
Anybody with experience either comparative or not  with these two machines? They seem very similar although the latter has many more stitches. Stitch quality? Motor strength? etc...

[Ohsewsimple]

@William my personal view is that I wouldn’t have a Singer as a gift.  Old machines were lovely but the modern ones are dreadful. 

[William]

Imho the experience I have had with modern Singer machines is that they are rather erratic. Some of them run well while others... I have a Quantum 9920 I have been playing with that I have rather enjoyed, most of the others are really not worth it.
I do find it fascinating, @Ohsewsimple that people either like or really dislike the Heavy Duty line. I have owned two of them (5511 and Denim) and have been pleased.

[Ohsewsimple]

@William I remember when the first heavy duty one came out.  We had one where I worked and I was tasked with 'trying it out' to see what it could do.  Well it definitely couldn’t do what they claimed.  And the engineer that asked me try it wasn’t at all surprised.   

For a basic machine ,I’d be inclined to look at Janome or Brother. 

[Ouryve]

I agree at looking at Janome or (carefully because there are some dogs out there) Brother, instead.


Love the play on words, BTW 

[Kwaaked]

As someone that has a metric ton of Singers in an alteration shop...there is a reason my newest one is from 1951.  Ohsewsimple is right.

Along with Janome and Brother, Juki is also a good brand.  Juki makes the top of the line in the bridal alteration industry (or at least the ones most of us have or want).

[So Chic]

I  inherited my MiL’s Singer Touch & Go which she loved and used until she lost her sight although I don’t think it was ever serviced until it came to me.  I don’t like the machine and would only use it in a dire emergency.  From the comments on new or newer Singers the quality seems to vary from very good to very poor.  I wouldn’t know what I would choose if I ever have to replace my Bernina which I hope will see me out.

[HenriettaMaria]

The main considerations when buying a machine are, IMO:

* does it have a metal chassis?  To get one you will have to go up the market.  Cheapo machines have nylon chassis and they flex under any kind of load, meaning the needle won't penetrate, eg, a denim hem and its associated side seams.
* is it electronic and, if so, are replacement boards available/likely to remain available in the near future?  If the electronics go and can't be replaced you will have at best a straight-stitch machine and at worst a door-stop.
* what kind of bobbin does it have?  This is a matter of preference but I don't get on with bottom-front loading bobbins and will pay more for a drop-in bobbin.
* what stitches are you likely to use?  Basic electro-mechanical swing-needle machines offer a variety of zig-zag stitches and either one-step or four-step buttonholes.  Early C20th machines are generally straight-stitch only: I've heard stories of buttonhole attachments for these but never seen one in use myself.
* finally, exactly how good is its top stitching?  This for me is a deal-breaker.  If the machine doesn't do a pristine, straight-as-a-die top/edge stitch without a great deal of wrestling, just no.  I have a Brother Super Ace II (now 25  years old) that does great buttonholes, stretch zig zag, etc, but its top stitching isn't up to snuff and it's a struggle to get edge-stitching neat.  I believe it's something to do with the pair of feed dogs being wide apart.  If I make a flat fell seam to the inside of a garment, meaning the bobbin thread is on the outside, it's a mess.  For that I use a 1978 Singer and it's immaculate.

Once you've defined your broad requirements you can narrow down your options.  It's easy to be dazzled by complexity but if you're never going to use all the bells and whistles, why bother?

[Surest1tch]

@William, I personally wouldn't have a new Singer if I was given it and paid to use it. However a vintage one would be a very different story, the new ones are not good at all.

[Tamnymore]

I have a Singer Brilliance - probably their simplest electronic machine - and it's absolutely fine. It is my back up machine though and I don't use it much. Like @HenriettaMaria I really don't like the front loading bobbin though .As well as having to take the 'tools box' bit off to get at the bobbin I can't see when the bobbin is about to run out. I didn't realise this when I bought this machine somewhat hastily at a bargain price. If I had to buy a new main machine a top loading bobbin would be a deal breaker for me.

[Ouryve]

I haven't used a Husqvarna machine so don't know what the quality is like but if Pfanny is anything to go by, it's not a strong point. @William Singer, Husqvarna and Pfaff are all the same group. My main machines are a £600 Janome and a £1000 Pfaff. Naturally, as a more premium machine, the Pfaff is a little more powerful and I really like the design of the feet and the stitch plate and. I think thst Pfaff excel on this point, in general. However, the Janome metal parts are nicely finished and smooth while the pfaff ones, including the bobbin race, are rough and pitted. The plastic used for the outer case of the Janome is nice and thick and sturdy while that of the Pfaff is thin and flexible and coming apart in places. The difference that really struck me is the bobbins. I've had about 4 packs of the bibbins for my janome and every one is identical. I bought some for the Pfaff when I acquired it and there was a visible difference between bobbins from different packs. I checked them with measuring callipers and one set was almost half a millimetre thicker than the other. I contacted the store I bought the new pack from, and the owner spoke to their Husqvarna engineer. Who said that the difference was "within tolerance" 

[Greybird]

I thought Husqvarna machines were now made by Janome? Mine certainly was (Emerald 118). It's a few years old now but the quality is excellent.

[Celia]

Husqvarna and Pfaff are the same and are in fact made in the same factories, singer are although owned by the same parent company they are not made the same. In this country Pfaff and Husqvarna are distributed by VSM but singer are not, it is different in other countries.
 Husqvarna emeralds are not made by Husqvarna and there are also a few other models across the lower end of both Pfaff and Husqvarna that are made for them.   

If you take the covers off of some of the PFAFF  and husqvarna machines they are almost identical, it is just the fancy bits that change.

[Ouryve]

Most Elna machines are almost exact dupes of Janome models, too. there is an Elna version of mine and a line of Atelier/ Skyline in different skins.

[Ohsewsimple]

It all got very confusing with Singer, Husqvarna and Pfaff didn’t it @Celia ?  People thought they were all the same.  My Husqvarna Designer Diamond is not the same standard as my old Husqvarna SE. 
And my old Pfaff 7570 was lovely and so easy to change needles due to the amount of space.